Sniper (Town Killing)

[Drackzgull]

Name:
- Sniper

Alignment:
- Town Killing

Sumary:
- You are an experienced marksman trying to find criminals on the act to shoot them down.

Abilities:
- Watch a person each night, in an attempt to shoot a killer caught red-handed.

Attributes:
- If your target is killed while you are watching them, you will shoot a visiting attacker.
- Your shot goes through night immunity.
- You have a total of 2 bullets.
- If multiple people attack your target, you will only shoot one of them (the first one to complete their night action).
- Shooting their killer does NOT prevent your target from dying.
- If your target was attacked, but not killed (i.e. they were night immune), you will not shoot the attacker.
- If your target survived an attack because they were healed by a Doctor, you will shoot the Doctor instead of the attacker.
- If your target is set on fire by an Arsonist, you will shoot anyone visiting them (the first one to complete their night action, if a direct attack also happens, default behavior takes precedence).
- If your target is an Arsonist and they ignite that night, you will shoot them (This won't happen if nobody burns despite the Arsonist visiting themselves).
- If you kill a town member, you will lose your ability and commit suicide the following night.
- You will know how many people visit your target, but not their identities.

Special Attributes:
- Unique role

Goal:
- Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Win Conditions:
- Town Victory.

Investigative Results:
- Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious
- Investigator (Option a): Your target owns weapons, they could be a Vigilante, Veteran, Sniper or Mafioso. (Makes the most sense to me, as it doesn't change the balance Town Killing roles have with the Mafioso)
- Investigator (Option b): Your target sticks to the shadows, they could be a Lookout, Sniper, Forger, or Amnesiac. (Separates the Sniper from the rest of the Town Killing roles, but gives the Forger more claim space)
- Consigliere: Your target works with a high calliber rifle. They must be a Sniper!
* Note: If it changes any of these result groups, I will revise Investigator results once patch 1.5.0 actually comes up.

Additional Information:
- With the exception of the Arsonist, you will only shoot a killer if your target is being visited by them, hence you can't shoot a Veteran, and will only shoot a Werewolf if you are watching their primary target (meaning the Werewolf will attack you as well).
- You will also not shoot a Serial Killer or Werewolf if your target is killed because of roleblocking them. (The roleblocker visited their killer in this scenario, the killer stayed home.)
- A Vampire Hunter will also not be shot if you are watching a Vampire that tried to bite the Vampire Hunter. (Similar case to the one above)
- You can't watch yourself, but the ability can be forced on yourself by a Witch or Transporter.
- A 1 vs 1 scenario between a Sniper and an Arsonist is automatically decided in favor of the Arsonist.

Player Messages:
- You have decided to watch [player's name] tonight. (When selecting a target at night)
- You caught a killer on the act! You have shot them! (When you shoot your target's killer)
- You saw your target start a fire! You have shot them! (When you shoot an Arsonist that ignited when you targeted them)
- You saw 1 person visit your target. (When exactly 1 person visits your target)
- You saw [number] people visit your target. (When at least 2 people visit your target)
- You were shot by a Sniper watching your target! (When you are killed by a Sniper)
- You were shot by a Sniper that saw you ignite! (When as an Arsonist, you are killed by a Sniper that was watching you when you ignited)
- Your target's house went up in flames! You have been shot by a Sniper as a suspected Arsonist! (When you are killed by a Sniper because your target was set on fire by an Arsonist)
- You have put away your rifle. (At the start of the night following the kill of a town member)
- You have killed yourself! (At the end of the night following the kill of a town member)

Lore:
A decorated, retired marksman of a foreign army, the Sniper arrived at Salem at the Mayor's request, hired as an instructor for the town's millitia. He could not find the Mayor however, and soon realised it was because the mayor was in hiding, as was pretty much everyone else in town, for the Mafia was constantly killing those that would oppose them, not to metion the Serial Killer that was at large. The Sniper knew he could do something to help the people of this town, he could take down anyone with a single shot, flawlessly aiming on someone's vital points while avoiding whatever protection they may be wearing, he had done so countless times during war, not to mention the sheer power of his high calliber rifle, able to penetrate through any kind of light armor. He could do something, if only he knew who the ones responsible were, as he had just arrived at Salem, he could barely recognize each person from another during the day, and with everyone keeping to themselves, doing their best to stay anonymous, he wasn't getting any closer to finding clues.

The Sniper set up his mind, if he could not find out who the criminals were, he would catch them red-handed and shoot them down in the act. He decided to act alone under the cover of night, as so many of the residents in Salem do, watching over the town for whoever might be the next victim. If he could not prevent the body count from rising, he would at least make sure the killers don't live to murder anyone else.


Balance Observations:

Pros:
- Very strong against killing roles.
- While not without risk, his ability is safer to use than existing Town Killing roles, specially early in the game.
- Becomes stronger as town members are revealed.
- Able to gather limited information even when not shooting a killer.
- Retains a bit of potential usefulness even after depleting the ability to kill.
- High risk high reward scenario whenever an Arsonist ignites. Overall probably a small buff to the Arsonist, which is good.

Cons:
- Cannot reliably kill evil roles even when their identities become apparent.
- Very vulnerable if revealed.
- Can only kill when someone else dies, possibly being too late.
- Risk of shooting a Doctor increases as town members are revealed.
- Poses little to no threat to non-killing evil roles.
- Very weak against Vampires, the only way to kill a Vampire would be after patch 1.5.0, when they become able to kill members of the mafia they bite. Also killing a Vampire Hunter would become likely if there is one.
- A Witch may cause the death of up to 3 town members in a single night (one of them (the Sniper) being delayed), by making a Vigilante or the Jailor kill a town member the Sniper is watching.


Example Achievements:
Spoiler: - Qualified: Win your first game as a Sniper (5 TP)
* Reference: You need to be a qualified sniper in order to raise in the ranks.
- Corporal: Win 5 games as a Sniper (5 TP)
* Reference: An expert marskman and scout (Corporal Pegahmagabow) is credited with 378 German kills and capturing 300+
- Master Corporal: Win 10 games as a Sniper (10 TP)
* Reference: A former master corporal (Bob Furlong) of the Canadian Forces who holds the record for the longest confirmed sniper kill in history
- The White Death: Win 25 games as a Sniper (25 TP)
* Reference: The nickname of a finnish soldier who had 505 confirmed kills with a rifle.
- Bob Lee Swagger: Shoot 2 members of the mafia in a single game. (10 TP)
* Reference: Main character of the fictional movie "Shooter"
- Enemy at the Gates: Shoot 2 Neutral Killing roles in a single game. (25 TP)
* Reference: Based off the movie; which helped make Zaystev the best known sniper in history.
- Confederate Sniper: Shoot 2 different Godfathers in a single game. (25 TP)
* Sgt Grace, a confederate Sniper, shot General John Sedgwick right under the eye at 1,000 yards during the battle of Spotsylvania. The kill was considered to be the one of the most incredible shots during the time (1864) and the most iconic demise of a target in history.
- Karl Fairburne: Shoot an Arsonist as they were igniting (10 TP)
* Reference: Main/player character in the Sniper Elite game series.
- Trigger Happy: Shoot consecutively on Night 1 and Night 2. (25 TP)
- Bullet From the Grave: Shoot your own killer. (25 TP)
- You Were Doing What in my House?: Shoot a Doctor because they healed you. (25 TP)
- Triple Kill! (Witch Achievement): Force a Vigilante to kill another town member, causing them to be shot by the Sniper. (25 TP)
- Anarchy! (Witch Achievement): Force the Jailor to execute the revealed Mayor, causing the Sniper to shoot the Jailor. (25 TP)

* Credit for all the references based on actual facts goes to Skulomania.
Comments and criticism will be very much apreciated

Update Log:
Spoiler: UPDATE (28 - 07 - 2016):
- Added more risk to the role by making the Sniper shoot a Doctor that healed their target from an attack.
- Added Example Achievements.

UPDATE (29 - 07 - 2016):
- Removed becoming a Lookout after using both bullets without town casualties.
- Removed the last part of the lore, which referenced that attribute.
- Added Example Achievement "Anarchy!".

UPDATE (29 - 07 - 2016) Part 2:
- Added interactions with the Arsonist. (credit to Skulomania for his feedback and ideas)
- Updated Player Messages, Pros and Cons accordingly.
- Added Poll.
- Collapsed the Update Log into a Spoiler.

UPDATE (29 - 07 - 2016) Part 3:
- Added more Example Achievements, TP awards and changed most of their names, adding inspiring references (Credit to Skulomania for most of these)
- Collapsed Example Achievements into a Spoiler.
- Added a bit of Aditional Information, including a tie-breaker for Sniper vs Arsonist.
- Added Sumary.
- Fixed some typos

UPDATE (30 - 07 - 2016):
- More flavor text.
- Improved small details in redaction.
- Fixed more typos.

UPDATE (30 - 07 - 2016) Part 2:
- Changes to Arsonist related flavor text.
- Added Investigator result Option d.

UPDATE (02 - 08 - 2016):
- Removed the ability failing if forced on yourself by a Witch or Transporter.
- Added 2 achievements related to the change.
- Disclaimer regarding colors.

UPDATE (02 - 08 - 2016) Part 2:
- Added Colors! (Thanks to Cenas4life for his help with this)
- Updated Investigator results to the version 1.5.0 groupings (may need to change again since the patch is not actually out yet)
- Small redaction improvements.
- Fixed the date of the previous update in the log.

[monkeymacman]

Seems like it should be Protective, even though it doesn't protect exactly, it is the same concept as BG, one townie dies and the killer dies, plus we could use another TP.

[Drackzgull]

Seems like it should be Protective, even though it doesn't protect exactly, it is the same concept as BG, one townie dies and the killer dies, plus we could use another TP.

Well as you said it doesn't protect, but not only that, it needs the target to be killed in order to shoot the attacker, so while the result might be similar in numbers to a Bodyguard, I don't think it fits in the Town Protective category. There's also a big diference with the Bodyguard in that the Bodyguard will sacrifice themselves to kill the attacker, the Sniper will live and may yet shoot another killer, but didn't disrupt the killer's selection of a victim.

Nevertheless I will consider it if more people agree with you on this.

[SzGamer227]

First things first: I don't think the name is appropriate. "Sniper" implies someone who shoots from a distance, not someone who watches a specific house at night. I think "Avenger" would be a fitting name, since that is in essence his entire role: avenging the death of the target's attacker by killing them in return.

All in all, this sounds like an effective Town Killing counterpart to the Town Protective role archetype, and seems to be reasonably balanced between the Body Guard's power and the Vigilante's.

My concern is that without additional Town Protective and Town Killing roles to water them down, the increased presence of roles that kill evil attacking roles when they try to kill someone would make the town a very toxic environment for Mafia members and Neutral Killing, since not only is there a Bodyguard in half the games you play, but also an Avegner in one out of 3, effectively increasing the presence of attacker-killing roles by 70%.

This isn't a balance issue with the role itself, but a balance issue with game composition that would result from this role being in-game.

[Skulomania]

I like the organization and detail you put into the role. Was easy and fun to read.

I like the idea of the role with its combinations and influences from other roles, and i think this would be enjoyable to play - however , i am going to offer a few suggestions.

1. I like the name Requiter (in replacement for Avenger because Avenger sounds too cheesy)

2. I think when the role uses up its 2 shots, it should simply be informed of how many players visited and thus become a worse lookout ,rather than a real lookout. I am kind of iffy about a TK becoming a TI.

3. This role has quite a nice combination between TK,TP, and TI, and so i feel like a few tweaks to balance may be effective, and which is what i am going to suggest ;

4. I feel like the role should be given more hesitance when using its ability, similar to the PTSD that accompanies using the vigilante's ability but maybe not as bad.

I feel that the role should have a set of requirements that a role needs to posses in order to shoot.

Potentially , the role shoots any person perceived to be dangerous/armed. And to help make this role more challenging and balanced , i think adding Sheriff (has a gun to interrogate) and bodyguard (has a gun to protect) would add the risk factor that this role is missing.

Roles perceived to be dangerous for the Sniper.

- Mafioso
- Serial Killer
- Werewolf
- Godfather
- Sheriff
- Bodyguard
- Vigilante

5. I am unsure of the role being able to pierce night immunity. I am quite opposed to any town role tinkering with people's night immunity except for BG ( because it is so vital to those who have it) but i can understand the need because the role cannot kill any other mafia, except mafioso. So I am thinking of a comprise.

have 2 shots. the 1st shot automatically pierces night immunity, while the last bullet is a non-piercing bullet. So if you kill a mafioso with your 1st bullet, your last bullet will still be non-piercing.

[Drackzgull]

First things first: I don't think the name is appropriate. "Sniper" implies someone who shoots from a distance, not someone who watches a specific house at night. I think "Avenger" would be a fitting name, since that is in essence his entire role: avenging the death of the target's attacker by killing them in return.

All in all, this sounds like an effective Town Killing counterpart to the Town Protective role archetype, and seems to be reasonably balanced between the Body Guard's power and the Vigilante's.

My concern is that without additional Town Protective and Town Killing roles to water them down, the increased presence of roles that kill evil attacking roles when they try to kill someone would make the town a very toxic environment for Mafia members and Neutral Killing, since not only is there a Bodyguard in half the games you play, but also an Avegner in one out of 3, effectively increasing the presence of attacker-killing roles by 70%.

This isn't a balance issue with the role itself, but a balance issue with game composition that would result from this role being in-game.

In this case Sniper is more referencing to watching over a target area from a vantage point, and waiting for an oportunity to take a shot, rather than at what distance that vantage point might be. In fact, in urban scenarios (police snipers mostly), sniper perches are usually not far from the targets, even more so, closer is mostly considered better is this situations.

That said, the main reason not to consider distance isn't concept but balance, given that much like the Lookout, the Sniper should also be killed when visiting an alerting Veteran or a Werewolf's primary target, and be detectable among the visitors to a Lookout's target.

I like the organization and detail you put into the role. Was easy and fun to read.

I like the idea of the role with its combinations and influences from other roles, and i think this would be enjoyable to play - however , i am going to offer a few suggestions.

1. I like the name Requiter (in replacement for Avenger because Avenger sounds too cheesy)

2. I think when the role uses up its 2 shots, it should simply be informed of how many players visited and thus become a worse lookout ,rather than a real lookout. I am kind of iffy about a TK becoming a TI.

3. This role has quite a nice combination between TK,TP, and TI, and so i feel like a few tweaks to balance may be effective, and which is what i am going to suggest ;

4. I feel like the role should be given more hesitance when using its ability, similar to the PTSD that accompanies using the vigilante's ability but maybe not as bad.

I feel that the role should have a set of requirements that a role needs to posses in order to shoot.

Potentially , the role shoots any person perceived to be dangerous/armed. And to help make this role more challenging and balanced , i think adding Sheriff (has a gun to interrogate) and bodyguard (has a gun to protect) would add the risk factor that this role is missing.

Roles perceived to be dangerous for the Sniper.

- Mafioso
- Serial Killer
- Werewolf
- Godfather
- Sheriff
- Bodyguard
- Vigilante

5. I am unsure of the role being able to pierce night immunity. I am quite opposed to any town role tinkering with people's night immunity except for BG ( because it is so vital to those who have it) but i can understand the need because the role cannot kill any other mafia, except mafioso. So I am thinking of a comprise.

have 2 shots. the 1st shot automatically pierces night immunity, while the last bullet is a non-piercing bullet. So if you kill a mafioso with your 1st bullet, your last bullet will still be non-piercing.

That's a lot of feedback from a single answer, thanks

About your suggestions:

1. See the reply to the quote above.

2. I was unsure about this to begin with, which is why it's tagged as "(Subject to removal)", now I'm almost convinced it should be removed, but I like that the lesser-Lookout-like trait is getting a possitive response.

4. As it stands, the greatest risk is shooting the Jailor if the Sniper targets someone being executed, but I agree that the role could use more risk. That said I don't like the concept of shooting people "percieved as dangerous", the Sniper is a reactive role, he won't shoot unless something has actually happened, and that something being specifically his target being killed, so shooting Sheriffs and Bodyguards doesn't make much sense in my opinion, and it would also add too much randomness over when and who to shoot, and the Sniper already little control over who he is shooting.

Regardless, you have given me an idea: When your target is attacked but healed by a Doctor, rather than not shooting at all, shoot the Doctor instead of the attacker. This is both fitting with the concept and adds a huge risk, since as town roles are revealed, a Doctor and a Sniper would be more likely to target the same people, and it's reasonable to think the Sniper might confuse the Doctor for a killer in the bloddy mess of the surgery.

5. I think piercing night inmunity is needed because the role is only capable of shooting other killing roles, and the only evil killing role that isn't night inmune is the Mafioso (after patch 1.5.0 the Vampire will also be an exception, but only capable of killing non-inmune mafia). Not only that but he can only shoot them in a reactive manner, with very little control over who he is shooting, these last traits are shared with both the Bodyguard and the Veteran, and they both pierce night inmunity as well.

Besides the change you suggest, I can think of notifying the Sniper of the identity of who he shot, so that if he shot an inmune role he can at least tell the town who that was. This could also be exploitable as an Executioner tactic. I think however, even combined this two changes might be too much of a nerf.

[Skulomania]

You welcome. i like to give detailed responses to detailed roles.

And yeah i was thinking of doing something with the doc being covered in blood, and i think that would be a good addition. I guess that is what suggestions are for. To create new suggestions But yeah, i think shooting the doc instead of the killer is a good idea, as it adds more of a risk factor without nerfing the role too greatly.

Also, another idea that just popped into my head, what if the Sniper kills the witch if it controls a vig to attack your target. Lore wise, i guess the sniper can tell that there is a mysterious figure a few houses away whos doing weird voodoo witchcraft and when u look at the vigilantes eyes, you see that they are like being controlled. I think this would be a nice addition too, which would give witches more hesitance when controlling vigilantes. I mean the target and vig still die, but so does the witch.I have not given this much thought so it might have its flaws but, currently i think it would be pretty cool.

And i see where you are coming from. I suppose 2 night piercing bullets seems fair ;

However! ....

If it were to be 1 piercing and 1 non , i suppose a good idea would be that the non-piercing bullet would be able to identify the target who was immune.
This would give this role the same challenge as vigilinate when it comes to coming out and accusing someone, which adds more of a challenge in terms of the town communication dynamics. Also, if the Sniper does potentially get a pefect streak, he could potentially kill the NK and Godfather..which is not "OP", but it definitely has a high ceiling potential that maybe should be lowered. As in, if he kills the GF, he has to come out and accuse the NK( if he does find) and vice versa.

And unlike my last point in the comments, the bullets are not in order. you simply have 2 bullets, 1 that can pierce and one that cannot. Although this suggestion is not needed and simply just a 'what if' , as the 2 piercing bullets does seems fair.

[Drackzgull]

You welcome. i like to give detailed responses to detailed roles.

And yeah i was thinking of doing something with the doc being covered in blood, and i think that would be a good addition. I guess that is what suggestions are for. To create new suggestions But yeah, i think shooting the doc instead of the killer is a good idea, as it adds more of a risk factor without nerfing the role too greatly.

Also, another idea that just popped into my head, what if the Sniper kills the witch if it controls a vig to attack your target. Lore wise, i guess the sniper can tell that there is a mysterious figure a few houses away whos doing weird voodoo witchcraft and when u look at the vigilantes eyes, you see that they are like being controlled. I think this would be a nice addition too, which would give witches more hesitance when controlling vigilantes. I mean the target and vig still die, but so does the witch.I have not given this much thought so it might have its flaws but, currently i think it would be pretty cool.

And i see where you are coming from. I suppose 2 night piercing bullets seems fair ;

However! ....

If it were to be 1 piercing and 1 non , i suppose a good idea would be that the non-piercing bullet would be able to identify the target who was immune.
This would give this role the same challenge as vigilinate when it comes to coming out and accusing someone, which adds more of a challenge in terms of the town communication dynamics. Also, if the Sniper does potentially get a pefect streak, he could potentially kill the NK and Godfather..which is not "OP", but it definitely has a high ceiling potential that maybe should be lowered. As in, if he kills the GF, he has to come out and accuse the NK( if he does find) and vice versa.

And unlike my last point in the comments, the bullets are not in order. you simply have 2 bullets, 1 that can pierce and one that cannot. Although this suggestion is not needed and simply just a 'what if' , as the 2 piercing bullets does seems fair.

I like your idea about the Witch, but if the Sniper is able to tell if the Vigilante is being controlled, he should be able tell if any killer is being controlled, thus shooting the Witch instead of the attacker if the attacker is being controlled, whoever the attacker might be. It makes sense and I like it, but I do have a reservation about it, which is that I think the Witch while very fun, is weak enough as it is, I don't know if the Witch could do with the Sniper being such a threat, and it would also take away some risk from the Sniper's ability, which we were recently trying to add to. Remember that the Witch needs to survive in order win, not just make the town lose, the Witch takes no benefit in causing two townies to get killed if the Witch themselves die in the process, nor do they get any benefit from sparing the life of any evil killer if they die to accomplish that.

I would like your take on the balance side of that before I consider adding it. And while on that topic, I would also like to see what you think of the possible interaction of the Sniper with the Arsonist.

While I'm still not convinced I should add it, I have thought of how to go about giving the Sniper only 1 bullet that goes through night inmunity and 1 that doesn't:

- Your night ability has only one bullet by default (this is the non piercing round)
- If you shoot a night inmune killer with this bullet, you will be notified of their name.
- Day Ability: Load/Unload an armor piercing round into your rifle.
- When loaded, your night ability has an extra bullet, it will be used before the default bullet if you still have it.
- This extra bullet goes through night inmunity, you don't get the name of someone shot by this bullet. (Lore-wise, the Sniper asumes this person dead and doesn't care to check who they were, they only way they could survive is a Doctor healing them, and if in the morning it turns out the killer was evil (the Sniper's target was killed by an evil role) the Sniper will have to come forth and call out the Doctor to identify who needs to be lynched, which is the way it works now anyway with the original and current state of having just the night ability with 2 bullets that ignore inmunity)

Even tho I gave it enough thought to come up with this, as I said I'm not convinced I should make this change, I would still rather keep it the way it is now

[Skulomania]

Yeah the Witch as it is right now needs more buffs than nerfs. So currently, although the Witch idea is nice , I do not think would be very fair for the Witch.

And for arsonist, i am thinking. Here 2 suggestions regarding the Arso, there could be more but these are just the ones i came up with at this moment.

1. Have it kill the arso if it douses your target. Lore wise, the sniper sees in the house that a person is setting gasoline on your target and then fleeing , shooting him after. (so basically what a BG does)

2. Kill the person who visits your target on the night your target is ignited. So essentially , the role sees a person enter and then shortly after he leaves the house explodes, which similar to the doc, you perceive as a bad guy and kill them. You could add this as an addition if you implement killing the arso if it douses as a way to balance it out. This would also make it very risky to watch over someone when an arso has doused a lot of people for it can potentially kill a townie but at the same time gives it a rare opportunity to kill a non-killing mafia role.

And yeah the change for the 2 shots night piercing is not really needed, but thought put into it is always good, in-case changes are needed in the future. But currently, i think it is fine the way it is.

[Drackzgull]

Yeah the Witch as it is right now needs more buffs than nerfs. So currently, although the Witch idea is nice , I do not think would be very fair for the Witch.

And for arsonist, i am thinking. Here 2 suggestions regarding the Arso, there could be more but these are just the ones i came up with at this moment.

1. Have it kill the arso if it douses your target. Lore wise, the sniper sees in the house that a person is setting gasoline on your target and then fleeing , shooting him after. (so basically what a BG does)

2. Kill the person who visits your target on the night your target is ignited. So essentially , the role sees a person enter and then shortly after he leaves the house explodes, which similar to the doc, you perceive as a bad guy and kill them. You could add this as an addition if you implement killing the arso if it douses as a way to balance it out. This would also make it very risky to watch over someone when an arso has doused a lot of people for it can potentially kill a townie but at the same time gives it a rare opportunity to kill a non-killing mafia role.

And yeah the change for the 2 shots night piercing is not really needed, but thought put into it is always good, in-case changes are needed in the future. But currently, i think it is fine the way it is.

I don't really like the first one because since no one else is getting killed, it's basically a free kill on the Arsonist.

The second idea however is pure gold, I'll add that along the idea I originally had as a non implemented alternative, to shoot the Arsonist if watching them when they ignite. This would create a high risk high reward scenario everytime an Arsonist decides to ignite if you're watching someone, put a lot of presure into deciding wether or not to watch when there's several people doused, and pretty much force you to watch someone every night if you are doused yourself.

Overall is probably a small buff to the Arsonist and that's good.

EDIT: changes made, added a Poll to the post.

[Skulomania]

Yeah i was not in favor of the 1st option either, as it is too generic. The 2nd one however adds a cool feature that adds more balance risk/reward factors to the Sniper while buffing the arsonist, and also adds more innovation to the role.

A few more things though i suggest you change/add.

1. Nothing major at all but, If you feel the need i suggest fixing your typo on immune. It is 'Immune' instead of 'Inmune'.

2. I suggest adding the generic Achievements to the role as well as the TP; here are some of then name and TP suggestions; and will give its meaning/significance because nothing I ever do is random.

Qualified: Win your first game as a Sniper (5TP) *You need to be a qualified sniper in order to raise in the ranks.*

Master Corporal: Win 5 games as a Sniper (5TP) *A former master corporal (Bob Furlong) of the Canadian Forces who holds the record for the longest confirmed sniper sniper kill in history*

Expert Marksman: Win 10 games as a Sniper (10TP) *An expert marskman and scout (Corporal Pegahmagabow) is credited with 378 German kills and capturing 300+*

Confederate Sniper: Win 15 games as a Sniper (15TP)
*Sgt Grace, a confederate Sniper, shot General John Sedgwick right under the eye at 1,000 yards during the battle of Spotsylvania. The kill was considered to be the one of the most incredible shots during the time (1864) and the most iconic demise of a target in history.*

Enemy At The Gates: Win 20 games a Sniper (20TP) *Based off the movie; the movie helped make Zaystev the best known sniper in history.*

The White Death: Win 25 games as a Sniper (25TP) *The nickname of a finnish soldier who had 505 confirmed kills with a rifle.*

Hope you found these helpful.

[Drackzgull]

Yeah i was not in favor of the 1st option either, as it is too generic. The 2nd one however adds a cool feature that adds more balance risk/reward factors to the Sniper while buffing the arsonist, and also adds more innovation to the role.

A few more things though i suggest you change/add.

1. Nothing major at all but, If you feel the need i suggest fixing your typo on immune. It is 'Immune' instead of 'Inmune'.

2. I suggest adding the generic Achievements to the role as well as the TP; here are some of then name and TP suggestions; and will give its meaning/significance because nothing I ever do is random.

Qualified: Win your first game as a Sniper (5TP) *You need to be a qualified sniper in order to raise in the ranks.*

Master Corporal: Win 5 games as a Sniper (5TP) *A former master corporal (Bob Furlong) of the Canadian Forces who holds the record for the longest confirmed sniper sniper kill in history*

Expert Marksman: Win 10 games as a Sniper (10TP) *An expert marskman and scout (Corporal Pegahmagabow) is credited with 378 German kills and capturing 300+*

Confederate Sniper: Win 15 games as a Sniper (15TP)
*Sgt Grace, a confederate Sniper, shot General John Sedgwick right under the eye at 1,000 yards during the battle of Spotsylvania. The kill was considered to be the one of the most incredible shots during the time (1864) and the most iconic demise of a target in history.*

Enemy At The Gates: Win 20 games a Sniper (20TP) *Based off the movie; the movie helped make Zaystev the best known sniper in history.*

The White Death: Win 25 games as a Sniper (25TP) *The nickname of a finnish soldier who had 505 confirmed kills with a rifle.*

Hope you found these helpful.

Oh snap! So many years of my life making that typo everytime I use that word

Changed the achievements based on your suggestions. Thanks a lot for that

[Skulomania]

I have had one of those moments. Used to be spelling 'weird' along time ago. I think i went on a long-years streak spelling it wierd. I also never seem to spell criticism right, as i always need to auto-correct it.

and no problem on the generic achievements. It was rather fun searching them up and coming up with them.

Also for the role, do you think there should be flavor text for the other player if you shoot a target because they visited an ignited person? Like maybe "You were shot by a Sniper that saw your target's house ignite after you walked out" or something like that, especially if the role is a non-killing role.

And I don't know how i feel about the role dying if it kills a townie. Just like it makes me sad when a Vigilante dies of guilty. Maybe the Sniper puts away his bullets and just watches his target's with his rifle. So essentially becoming the downgraded lookout or maybe just puts down his rifle and grabs a beer and become useless lol, or it can kill itself, although with the nerfs/buffs we have made , i feel like we are being too hard on the Sniper, for example killing the doc, anyone who visits an ignited target,etc

And speaking of the lookout, have you come up with what happens after his bullets are gone? I still think he should just be able to see the number of people visit instead of becoming a lookout, or have you already made the decision in the post and i am just partially blind?

[Cenas4life]

I love this idea. This sounds like a very good town role that could and should be added to town of salem. I was thinking about it being in town protective, but I decided since the target dies anyways it is not a protective role. As for any possible changes, the role seems good as it is. I also like how the doctor will get shot upon having healed a victim because that adds some risk in using the role. /SUPPORT

[Drackzgull]

I have had one of those moments. Used to be spelling 'weird' along time ago. I think i went on a long-years streak spelling it wierd. I also never seem to spell criticism right, as i always need to auto-correct it.

and no problem on the generic achievements. It was rather fun searching them up and coming up with them.

Also for the role, do you think there should be flavor text for the other player if you shoot a target because they visited an ignited person? Like maybe "You were shot by a Sniper that saw your target's house ignite after you walked out" or something like that, especially if the role is a non-killing role.

And I don't know how i feel about the role dying if it kills a townie. Just like it makes me sad when a Vigilante dies of guilty. Maybe the Sniper puts away his bullets and just watches his target's with his rifle. So essentially becoming the downgraded lookout or maybe just puts down his rifle and grabs a beer and become useless lol, or it can kill itself, although with the nerfs/buffs we have made , i feel like we are being too hard on the Sniper, for example killing the doc, anyone who visits an ignited target,etc

And speaking of the lookout, have you come up with what happens after his bullets are gone? I still think he should just be able to see the number of people visit instead of becoming a lookout, or have you already made the decision in the post and i am just partially blind?

Added the suggested flavor text.

About the suicide, I think it should stay. The role is very strong if it doesn't mess up, so the punishment should be strong if it does. Overall I think the Sniper is still a bit safer to play than the Vigilante, except when there's an Arsonist in the game, and when there is, well, the Arsonist is by far the weakest Neutral Killing, so it could use the aditional possibility of a favorable scenario.

And yes, the ability to become a Lookout was removed in the second update, the Sniper only retains the ability to see the number of visits after using his 2 bullets.

I love this idea. This sounds like a very good town role that could and should be added to town of salem. I was thinking about it being in town protective, but I decided since the target dies anyways it is not a protective role. As for any possible changes, the role seems good as it is. I also like how the doctor will get shot upon having healed a victim because that adds some risk in using the role. /SUPPORT

Thanks for the support , the Doctor thing wasn't actually in the original design, I came up with that thanks to the feedback. Right now I don't see much more to tweak either, but more feedback can allways be enlightening

[Cenas4life]

I love this idea. This sounds like a very good town role that could and should be added to town of salem. I was thinking about it being in town protective, but I decided since the target dies anyways it is not a protective role. As for any possible changes, the role seems good as it is. I also like how the doctor will get shot upon having healed a victim because that adds some risk in using the role. /SUPPORT

Thanks for the support , the Doctor thing wasn't actually in the original design, I came up with that thanks to the feedback. Right now I don't see much more to tweak either, but more feedback can allways be enlightening

As before mentioned, great role idea and if I come up with anything for it, I'll let you know

[SparksElm]

In regards to the flavour text for when a player gets shot by Sniper because their target was ignited, may I suggest: "[player name of target]'s house went up in flames. You have been shot by a Sniper as a suspected Arsonist!"
It's not that there's anything wrong with the current text, but I just feel it could have more of an impact on how a player might feel after receiving the message.

In regards to the investigator results, I was thinking that maybe "Your target has a fascination with watching/following people; they could be a Lookout, Sniper or Forger". Admittedly, the flavour text doesn't work that well with the Forger, but I still (personally) think it would be the best option. It brings the Lookout out of the insta-confirmed Town result and the Forger out of the "framed" result. Such a result could (potentially) work with the updated investigator results in patch 1.5 as well.

[dota2reporter]

my sniper is the best

[Drackzgull]

In regards to the flavour text for when a player gets shot by Sniper because their target was ignited, may I suggest: "[player name of target]'s house went up in flames. You have been shot by a Sniper as a suspected Arsonist!"
It's not that there's anything wrong with the current text, but I just feel it could have more of an impact on how a player might feel after receiving the message.

In regards to the investigator results, I was thinking that maybe "Your target has a fascination with watching/following people; they could be a Lookout, Sniper or Forger". Admittedly, the flavour text doesn't work that well with the Forger, but I still (personally) think it would be the best option. It brings the Lookout out of the insta-confirmed Town result and the Forger out of the "framed" result. Such a result could (potentially) work with the updated investigator results in patch 1.5 as well.

Thanks for the feedback, I made the change you suggested for the flavor text. As for the Investigator results, I had been thinking of adding the Lookout to the one I have as Option c (which I just did as Option d), but as I mention in the Original Post, I will revise all the Investigator results once patch 1.5.0 arrives, so for now I don't really think that's very relevant.

my sniper is the best

You do have an interesting Sniper concept (I still like mine better) that I failed to find before posting this one. But the two concepts are so different that really the only thing that keeps them from being compatible is that they share the same name.

I'll drop by your thread and give you some feedback there, if you have any feedback to give on mine I would apreciate it as well.

[Cenas4life]

In regards to the flavour text for when a player gets shot by Sniper because their target was ignited, may I suggest: "[player name of target]'s house went up in flames. You have been shot by a Sniper as a suspected Arsonist!"
It's not that there's anything wrong with the current text, but I just feel it could have more of an impact on how a player might feel after receiving the message.

In regards to the investigator results, I was thinking that maybe "Your target has a fascination with watching/following people; they could be a Lookout, Sniper or Forger". Admittedly, the flavour text doesn't work that well with the Forger, but I still (personally) think it would be the best option. It brings the Lookout out of the insta-confirmed Town result and the Forger out of the "framed" result. Such a result could (potentially) work with the updated investigator results in patch 1.5 as well.

Thanks for the feedback, I made the change you suggested for the flavor text. As for the Investigator results, I had been thinking of adding the Lookout to the one I have as Option c (which I just did as Option d), but as I mention in the Original Post, I will revise all the Investigator results once patch 1.5.0 arrives, so for now I don't really think that's very relevant.

my sniper is the best

You do have an interesting Sniper concept (I still like mine better) that I failed to find before posting this one. But the two concepts are so different that really the only thing that keeps them from being compatible is that they share the same name.

I'll drop by your thread and give you some feedback there, if you have any feedback to give on mine I would apreciate it as well.

I like the sniper as the town killing version rather than the mafia killing version.

[QtheQuack]

i think it's a nerfed bg
/nosupport

[Cenas4life]

i think it's a nerfed bg
/nosupport

If you read the role more closely you will realize it is in no way a nerfed bodyguard. It is a quite unique role actually.

[Drackzgull]

i think it's a nerfed bg
/nosupport

Differences with the Bodyguard:
- Does not prevent the dead of the target.
- Lives through shooting an attacker, and may shoot again.
- Does not disrupt the abilities or or targeting of the attacker.
- Can shoot the Arsonist when they ignite, but not when they douse.
- Can shoot someone else when an Arsonist ignnites, potentially an evil role that can't normally be shot because it's not a killer, at the risk of them being a townie.
- Has access to some information even when not shooting someone.
- Is still a vote for the town even after depleting his ability to kill. This is also true for whoever the Bodyguard protected, however the Bodyguard's target may potentially not be a part of the town.

Overall the Bodyguard is of course better at protecting people, but that's rather obvious, the Bodyguard is a Town Protective and this is a Town Killing. The Sniper is a much greater threat to killers because it can shoot 2 of them in and off his own right, a feat the Bodyguard needs the help of a Doctor or a Retributionist to accomplish, in which case, again, the superiority is obvious because that is 2 roles synergizing together as opposed to 1 acting alone. The Sniper's ability to see the amount of visitors to their targets gives it oppotunities to support investigative claims and debunk fake claims, the Bodyguard has nothing comparable to that.

EDIT: Oh and on top of all that, Bodyguard is Town Protective and this is Town Killing, they don't even fill the same slot in the town, one of them being in the game has nothing to do with the other one being there or not, unless it's on the Random Town or Any slots.

[Drackzgull]

It would be nice to get some feedback from the people that think this idea is in need of tweaks, or those that think it's a bad idea in it's entirety.

I'ts been a while since the suggestions have been only about flavor. And only QtheQuack said something about their objections.

[oliy]

I just saw this in your sig and had to see it:
Even without my odd method of thinking, it's bad. It's a buffed BodyGuard and brings nothing new to the game. Bodyguard raises the kill count by one, and so does this, except this has two shots and can kill two killers. Also, I generally despise roles that rely on visitors in general as odds plus general lack of thinking in a game makes it near-useless, with roles such as Lookout, Werewolf, and Town Protectives, and this just makes it worse. The role is very swingy in general and I don't like it.