New Neutral Benign Role:

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New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:00 pm

Merchant

You are a Merchant.

Your alignment is Neutral Benign.

You can't believe how great a conflict like this is for business! Who knew that people rely so much more on your goods when their life hangs in the balance?! People are buying everything! Weapons, medicine, food, ammunition- all of it is flying off your shelves! At the rate you're going, you'll be set for life for sure! Wahoo!

Each Night Phase, you may target one player. If you do, you will try to bargain them into making a purchase off of you.
If your target is killed or roleblocked the night you target them, they will be unable to complete the purchase and you have to try again the next night.
Otherwise, you will have successfully gotten them to buy something, and you're that much closer to striking riches!
You cannot target a person who has already purchased something off of you.
If you target a Serial Killer or Stalker, they will target you in addition to their original targets.
If you successfully sell your merchandise 4 times before the game ends, you will have won!
Otherwise, you will have lost.

You must kill Bombers.
You may spare anyone else.
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby TheWabbit » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:24 pm

is it some kind of a fruit vendor in terms of visiting effects?

with zero swing it looks great, though i feel like people will find it a little bland
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Google » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:07 pm

TheWabbit wrote:is it some kind of a fruit vendor in terms of visiting effects?

with zero swing it looks great, though i feel like people will find it a little bland

yes they will.
more than a little.
Last edited by Google on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Chemist1422 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:08 pm

TheWabbit wrote:is it some kind of a fruit vendor in terms of visiting effects?

with zero swing it looks great, though i feel like people will find it a little bland

pretty much this
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby EvanManManMan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Survivor that can visit and has the ability to fuck itself over

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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Google » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:56 pm

EvanManManMan wrote:Survivor that can visit and has the ability to fuck itself over

Next

the role is bad, but it doesn't need to survive
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Flake » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:00 pm

Google wrote:
EvanManManMan wrote:Survivor that can visit and has the ability to fuck itself over

Next

the role is bad, but it doesn't need to survive

"If you successfully sell your merchandise 4 times before the game ends, you will have won!
Otherwise, you will have lost."

And it has no vests
FM Record: 11 - 4
Spoiler: 16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
VFM46: Goon - Win (Lived)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM48: Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
VFM49: Citizen - Loss (Died N2)
SFM58: Doctor-esque - Win (Lived)
VFM50: Goon - Win (Lived)
18B: Citizen - Win (Lived)
18C: Godfather - Win (Lived)
VFM52: Citizen - Win (Died N1)
SFM60: Citizen - Loss (Endgamed, Replaced in D4)
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Flake » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:10 pm

This role like needs to survive for a decent amount of time but has no viable way of doing so

Add vests and it becomes Survivor except you can also die by visiting SK/Stalker, you don't win if the game ends before you pull off all 4 merchant sells (which means game length is key to winning, which is bad because game length is largely outside of Merchant's control), and you can win the game before game end by visiting having 4 successful sells and just (seemingly) now exist for no reason

The only part I really like is decision making involved in making successful sales, but Survivor also has decision making through surviving via vests

Like I'm not really seeing why it should exist given Survivor does
FM Record: 11 - 4
Spoiler: 16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
VFM46: Goon - Win (Lived)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM48: Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
VFM49: Citizen - Loss (Died N2)
SFM58: Doctor-esque - Win (Lived)
VFM50: Goon - Win (Lived)
18B: Citizen - Win (Lived)
18C: Godfather - Win (Lived)
VFM52: Citizen - Win (Died N1)
SFM60: Citizen - Loss (Endgamed, Replaced in D4)
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Rickdaily12 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:58 pm

Flake wrote:This role like needs to survive for a decent amount of time but has no viable way of doing so

Add vests and it becomes Survivor except you can also die by visiting SK/Stalker, you don't win if the game ends before you pull off all 4 merchant sells (which means game length is key to winning, which is bad because game length is largely outside of Merchant's control), and you can win the game before game end by visiting having 4 successful sells and just (seemingly) now exist for no reason

The only part I really like is decision making involved in making successful sales, but Survivor also has decision making through surviving via vests

Like I'm not really seeing why it should exist given Survivor does

If you don't include Bomber, then Survivor by itself basically auto-wins barring someone being dumb enough to attack it.

This role isn't as easy. It needs to do more than just live. It has to avoid targets that both sides want dead, and both sides want to disrupt. It also has to avoid Neutral Killing. If Bomber is in play, then like Survivor, it has to kill the role or lose along with everyone else.

It also isn't afraid to die as much as Survivor, but that is much more deeper into endgame.

There might be instances where a Merchant has to tell the Town to fuck off asking their help to rapid endgame and side with them if they haven't sold enough merchandise, and vice versa for the Mafia. The original design of this role had 5 sellings of merchants, but anyone who even remotely liked this role was too worried that the role never wins under that condition. One misfire would spell death.

TL;DR: the role is designed not to instantwin like Survivor. It has a Benign driven winning condition like the alignment subfaction intends that doesn't involve killing itself, converting itself, or dying. It can lose, but not because it died, and it might not be as open to endgaming as quickly as a winning faction may want.
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Rickdaily12 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:00 pm

It was also suggested that we could add a passive 1-use BP to the role, but I really don't know how I feel about that. If this role wins half the time, I'll be thrilled. I don't want the objective to be too easy or too difficult.

I'm not sure this role needs to be as worried about dying due to the fact that it's a Benign compared to other roles.


EDIT: Huh. Although, I'm realizing now that the solution of granting it a 1-use bulletproof AND the requirement of 5 sellings might both solve the worry over the role dying as well as the winning condition being too easy. If people are dying too fast though (especially if Vigs/Mafia/Stalkers never miss targets) it might be impossible after a certain point for the role to win.

This wouldn't bother me as much, though.

And it would also give Scum roles with night immunity a feasible role to claim to be to the Town that might keep them alive mildly longer.
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Rickdaily12 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:16 pm

Flake wrote:Like I'm not really seeing why it should exist given Survivor does

Literally no one runs survivor due to the role winning basically every game it walks into or being policy lynched.
You claim and then leave. You win for being ignored or lose for being risk killed.
That's if the host runs the role at all (see anti-kingmaking)

Neutrals should have goals that are irrelevant to the conflict between the Town and the Mafia that they need to fulfill before the game ends. Think Pirate, but less harmful to the Town, seeing as how this role is intended to be Benign. Pirate is honestly one of the better designed Neutrals that ToS has come up with as they just want to complete their goal in time and might be forced to try to push the game ahead if it hasn't done so yet. If you're Town or Scum and can't afford to let Pirate continue to fencesit, they'll eventually kill the role.

Merchant is intended not to be too different from that. But it's not because Merchant or Pirate are doing nothing.

Survivor literally does fuck all after claiming Survivor which is a lot of why the role gets a lot of backlash, and honestly, no role should be played by doing fuck all ITT in the first place.
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Re: New Neutral Benign Role:

Postby Varanus » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:39 pm

Game Moderator Message: To avoid clogging FMD with threads about role ideas, please put any suggestions you have in some sort of megathread.
You were expecting a decent signature...

BUT IT WAS ME! DIO!
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