BMing/Forging n1?

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BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Anyar » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:16 pm

Had a game where BMer and Forger both did their stuff n1.

But to me, it seems like they should've waited until at least n2 if not later.

BMing n1 gives away BMer next day and prevents him from reading useful whispers, and it's highly unlikely that the BMed target had useful info anyways.

Forging n1 can give away Forger like if there's a Spy or Medium, and no townie has very useful info n1 anyway, so it's also wasting a forge.

Thoughts?
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Anyar » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:39 pm

On a side note, thoughts on Framing n1? While you might get lucky on a Sher/Invest, you might also confirm a townie through the help of a Spy.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:52 pm

BM n1 - no. You should only BM investigative claims/jailors maybe.

Forging n1 - Probably not. There isn't really much you'll be able to hide.

Framing n1 - Yes. Getting a successful frame early can give maf necessary momentum.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Anyar » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:03 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:BM n1 - no. You should only BM investigative claims/jailors maybe.

Forging n1 - Probably not. There isn't really much you'll be able to hide.

Framing n1 - Yes. Getting a successful frame early can give maf necessary momentum.

Wouldn't this be nullified by a Spy? So then it would've been better to wait until d2 to see if there's Spies first.

Not that confirming a framed townie is too big of a risk though.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:42 am

always forge n1. Especially when GF targets the vet, make sure you forge the vet n1.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Google » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:43 pm

kyuss420 wrote:always forge n1. Especially when GF targets the vet, make sure you forge the vet n1.

please dont become the new nightsh0w

depending on the gamemode bming can be useful, but dont forge
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby XxCottonCandyxX » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 pm

Agree 1000% with what you said. I don't think BM should visit at all, and forger only if maf knows the role has important info. BM is very useful if town thinks there isn't one and later at the very end of the game, when there's like, a TI who's pretty much going to find maf and they visit someone. You can then BM them and they can't speak the next day, which prevents info from getting out and if they spam vote, town may think they're maf lying about BM because no one else was BMed that day and lynch them. I've had that happen as maf in the game (hidden BM until the very end, and then BMed an important role) and actually watched them get lynched by town. Though that was quite a while ago when I had about 1100 elo so that may have been why.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby GuardianOverkill » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:47 pm

I agree that forging n1 is unlikely to yield anything useful, but you neglected to tell us what exactly this guy did. It is possible that he came up with a strategy, or was testing out a strategy, that involved doing this. I do not think we should be speaking in absolutes, particularly in regards to this game.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Anyar » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:56 pm

XxCottonCandyxX wrote:Agree 1000% with what you said. I don't think BM should visit at all, and forger only if maf knows the role has important info. BM is very useful if town thinks there isn't one and later at the very end of the game, when there's like, a TI who's pretty much going to find maf and they visit someone. You can then BM them and they can't speak the next day, which prevents info from getting out and if they spam vote, town may think they're maf lying about BM because no one else was BMed that day and lynch them. I've had that happen as maf in the game (hidden BM until the very end, and then BMed an important role) and actually watched them get lynched by town. Though that was quite a while ago when I had about 1100 elo so that may have been why.

Nice. Surprise BMers always catch everyone off guard.

GuardianOverkill wrote:I agree that forging n1 is unlikely to yield anything useful, but you neglected to tell us what exactly this guy did. It is possible that he came up with a strategy, or was testing out a strategy, that involved doing this. I do not think we should be speaking in absolutes, particularly in regards to this game.

I don't recall exactly, but I believe they were BMing someone who talked d1 and Forging the person we were attacking.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby GuardianOverkill » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:03 pm

I would imagine so.
I meant what was their motivation for Forging n1.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Anyar » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:41 pm

GuardianOverkill wrote:I would imagine so.
I meant what was their motivation for Forging n1.

No idea, they didn't say.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby GuardianOverkill » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:46 pm

Well then, I do not think it is really fair to judge.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Anyar » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:53 am

GuardianOverkill wrote:Well then, I do not think it is really fair to judge.

I'm saying that there's really no reason to forge n1, ever.

BMing... maybe, but forging? No. But people still do it.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby GuardianOverkill » Thu May 09, 2019 10:24 pm

I understand. However, until we have the testimony of someone who does Forge n1, then we cannot say whether it is valid or not. We need a rational to test your theory.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby GrumpyGoomba » Thu May 09, 2019 10:56 pm

Forging n1 is stupid. Moreso because
1 Forging attempts are limited
2 You don't have enough info n1 to properly utilize a forge
3 If your forge makes no sense/conflicts with the forged person's actual role then it will alert the town to the existence of a forger.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby GuardianOverkill » Mon May 13, 2019 2:41 pm

Anyar wrote:On a side note, thoughts on Framing n1? While you might get lucky on a Sher/Invest, you might also confirm a townie through the help of a Spy.


If it is a Spy game, then Framer is useless until the Spy is dead.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Sealsandbears » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:56 pm

Two productive ways to forge n1:

1. Visit whoever is visited by consig, disguiser, or framer. If a spy registers the double visit and maf killing hits immune, the town is likely to assume a janitor game and focus their attention on the wrong player.

2. Make maf's target player look like a disguiser on the wrong end of a transporter by writing up a will with multiple bad claims. Bonus points if you can implicate another townie in the process.

The goal isn't necessarily to force to a mislynch, but to dominate the d2 discussion long enough that town can't effectively disseminate or analyze real information.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby TheWinner2015 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:27 pm

kyuss420 wrote:always forge n1. Especially when GF targets the vet, make sure you forge the vet n1.


Also make sure to put all the mafia in your will, but say they aren't mafia for a confirmed win. Works 100% of the time, as long as you think 0 and 100 look the same.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Yummysht » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:38 pm

Bming in n1 is not sensible because in the morning, they learn that there is a bm via vote spams.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby fwogcarf » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:27 pm

Yes on all of them ONLY if you know what you're doing
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby philip1077 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:14 pm

Bm can be very passive and useful, spy claim is usually susp unless you are on the ball. When bm, faking your own Bm can also be a powerful tool. Do both of those and town will be confused. Say N1 don't Bm anyone, but fake Bm in the chat, next night, Bm someone important, (or not) and then claim you got viisted N1, and then continue as a normal spy. If there are other spies you will know D1 because any spy claims that are later in the game are very suspicious. Additionally, if there is another Spy, you can Blackmail him to get him lynched because everyone will think s/he's faking.
Just be careful because it will most likely result in your death because you also claimed spy.
Another solution is to just kill the spy :)

With regards to forging N1, don't do it, framing sure, but don't forge N1. Very rarely like killing a Jailor will it help.
With that said, if you kill Jailor and forge his will N1 successfully, it might be a good idea to claim jailed because it takes suspicion away from you. Be careful on what you forge though, sometimes its good to forge nothing because it seems like the Jailor didnt use the will, but then you could make it clearly forged by saying random stuff again proving you couldn't be maf because you claimed jailed.
N2 when you go to kill the person who cc'd you being jailed (assuming they don't get hanged, you don't get spotted by Lo, and Tp didn't save Jailor, and you were not hanged) forge that persons will to make them seem like they were game throwing. Then boom, everyone thinks you are legit, and you can take attention away from yourself without claiming, and if you do claim you can feed false information to the town they might believe. :0

Wow that was way longer than I wanted it to be

Btw I've done this strat before :)

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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby TiberianSun371AlexW » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:02 pm

You might get lucky with an N1 bm, but never a forge. I usually refuse to frame or Bm n1 because vets like to... for some reason alert on odd nights including night 1.

On the flip side as town, I lynch every vet claim who says he alerted N1 unless he got a kill. Even with no TK cc. Why? Some vigilantes like to stay silent. I prefer to not publicly claim before day 4 no matter what my role unless I can lynch an evil or save a townie, so I know that if there is a vet claim and a vigi who thinks like me, that vet might not be real. So by lynching a vet who alerted N1 with no tk cc, I lynch a fake vet, or an unconfirmed guy who was stupid enough to waste an alert. Win-Win.

As werewolf I don't fear vets since they for some reason like odd nights.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby ProvidenceAve » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:59 am

I take a different approach to forger/bmer for these reasons:

1. just in general visiting roles are a liability (aside from consig/jan). you can lose them to unconfirmed vets/ww/sk visits or LOs that push for claims on who they see visiting.
2. forging is mostly bad for any unconfirmed role. yes you can wipe ti results with it, but it's much more powerful when you have a confirmed role and can actually create a decent false will.
3. BMs and obviously forged wills early game expose evil roles and can make inv results really powerful.
4. Early game BM really only useful when an Ti starts pushing hard but town doesn't catch on. weakness of BM is spam voting can expose it.
5. BM most powerful right around tipping point of the game when you need to lynch an inno.

thats just my 2 cents on it, I see more forgers and BMs die when their early game play gives town that little bit of extra intel needed to find them.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby kosmo16 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:19 am

Forger should visit Jailor n1 in tp/lo meta. For bm you can visit n1 if you know what you are doing. My record is 3 Townies dead as a result of N1 blackmailing. Strategy is so disgusting.
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Re: BMing/Forging n1?

Postby Dallasfootball04 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:44 pm

When I am a forger/framer, I normally go on TP/LO claim day 1 so if LO sees me, I am "confirmed" as TP. If not, then you know no spy and can forge/frame as you please.

Shouldn't bm/frame/forge N1 bc it really is useless and spy can prove townies when you random. Best to wait as a bmer and then bm a TI so no one knows

Best bet is bm a LO and then kill TP. It won't matter if LO sees bc they can't tell anyone
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