D1 Jailor claims

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D1 Jailor claims

Postby Dreyal » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:52 am

I got back to the game after some month and rolled Jailor.
2 people claimed Jailor D1 which was new for me. I jailed one and he claimed vet, then I jailed the other one and he claimed BG,
but I didnt bought it and exed him. Both were in the end town..

Someone please explain this to me, this was around 1300 elo
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby foggyartsit3 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:33 am

Sadly I've seen these strategies is action, but to fully explain them requires context from the past few months. In ranked (and sometimes more casual modes) it was very common for a jailor to reveal themselves D1 to get guaranteed protection and to make smart lynches based on info supplied to them. A recent patch attempted to make that strategy unviable by making arsonist BG immune (I would've preferred a WW buff but that's besides the point), of course in lower elos the strategy went away, so your BG essentially tried to get your attention and become your meat shield by lying to the town. The veteran on the other hand tried to bait mafia N1 with the promise of a clean kill, but failed to consider the actual jailor, or why mafia would attack someone who would receive lots of protection.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby JoltikIsDubby » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:25 pm

Claiming jailor when you're town (and not the jailor) is stupid imo. Why shouldn't the real jailor execute you if you try to impersonate them in chat?

And the whole 'vet claiming jailor' thing is so bad it's become a meme.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby foggyartsit3 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:41 pm

JoltikIsDubby wrote:Claiming jailor when you're town (and not the jailor) is stupid imo. Why shouldn't the real jailor execute you if you try to impersonate them in chat?

And the whole 'vet claiming jailor' thing is so bad it's become a meme.

foggyartsit3 wrote:Sadly I've seen these strategies is action... so your BG essentially tried to get your attention and become your meat shield by lying to the town. The veteran on the other hand ... failed to consider the actual jailor, or why mafia would attack someone who would receive lots of protection.


Yeah, you can have your own opinion about fake claiming jailor, but fake claiming jailor has considerable benefits as stated above, in all honesty OP should've been more receptive and tried to understand their reasoning before executing them.

I would agree that a veteran shouldn't fake claim jailor, as using a veteran's abilities might be harmful to the town, but fake claiming jailor as a TP, if pulled off correctly, can provide jailor with information, protection, and anonymity.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby ChemicalKing » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:07 pm

I do not think there is an explanation. Some people believe it to be a valid strategy.
I think all we can do in the end is hope they lose enough times doing it that they realize it is not working.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Ben4lyfe » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:00 pm

Sounds like the Syanna tactic, honestly. Just claiming jailor as any role even though it's proven to not really work. It's techincally not game throwing but if you do a tactic that fails so often then it is classed as gamethrowing. So on one occasion of this happening, no it's not gamethrowing. But if it happens regularly then I would say that you just report it and let the trial system go through with it
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby foggyartsit3 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:33 pm

foggyartsit3 wrote: fake claiming jailor as a TP, if pulled off correctly, can provide jailor with information, protection, and anonymity.


I don't think I was totally clear, I mean that the town role that could pull this off to the town's benefit would be a TP, but that fake claiming jailor as a TP on night one is so bad of a strategy that's it's borderline throwing
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby fable979 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:55 pm

Cc them as real jailor. Simple.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby foggyartsit3 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:34 pm

The idea is that jailor will jail you allowing for the TP to pass on information, it works in theory but evils are capable of pulling this off and jailor's guard should always be up.

Neither of those things will or should change
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby spelerthomas » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:44 am

It's probably rude but the reason why this happened is probably because it was 1300 elo.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Anyar » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:30 pm

Just adding on that if you fake claim Jailor as BG, don't expect the Jailor to automatically believe you and tell you his name when you get hauled off to jail.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby TechnoMotown » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

Both the Vet and BG were attempting to get evils to waste their n1 attack on them. Vet through bait and BG through his vest. It could be a valid strategy, but it does forget to account for Jailor stepping in, which may or may not make a difference in the end.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Iluyan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:43 am

If I am jailor and someone else claims jailor, then You are gonna be in my prison by the soonest oppertunity (next night) and will be executed no matter what you say.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Anyar » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:06 am

TechnoMotown wrote:Both the Vet and BG were attempting to get evils to waste their n1 attack on them. Vet through bait and BG through his vest. It could be a valid strategy, but it does forget to account for Jailor stepping in, which may or may not make a difference in the end.

Who the heck attacks a Jailor claim n1?

Well, to be fair, I have been attacked despite asking for tp/lo. Still, competent evils will attack someone else.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Yemac » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:12 am

Worst thing is, it doesn't get better in higher ELO's. I'm in masters and this 'flummery' is everywhere. It's always BG's and veterans claiming jailor. I always execute them, I don't care. They call me stupid jailor but they're the ones getting 14 reports for gamethrowing.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Anyar » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:41 pm

Yemac wrote:Worst thing is, it doesn't get better in higher ELO's. I'm in masters and this 'flummery' is everywhere. It's always BG's and veterans claiming jailor. I always execute them, I don't care. They call me stupid jailor but they're the ones getting 14 reports for gamethrowing.

Not sure about Vets claiming Jailor, but some BGs have a questionable tactic of claiming Jailor so that when Jailor jails them they reveal and ask to be on Jailor.

Of course, this doesn't work if the Jailor doesn't immediately trust them enough to reveal.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby ChemicalKing » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:24 am

Anyar wrote:Who the heck attacks a Jailor claim n1?


A mix of smart players and suicidal players.
The Jailor meta has become so overused that people have stopped going on people who make high profile claims n1. Either because such claims are difficult to believe or because, as you say, nobody would be "dumb" enough to attack that person anyway so I should try to save somebody else who has greater potential of being attacked. Then there are players who realize this and try to attack out the potential Jailor thinking that TPs/Lookouts would be elsewhere.

This a game that evolves the longer it exists.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Anyar » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:51 pm

ChemicalKing wrote:A mix of smart players and suicidal players.
The Jailor meta has become so overused that people have stopped going on people who make high profile claims n1. Either because such claims are difficult to believe or because, as you say, nobody would be "dumb" enough to attack that person anyway so I should try to save somebody else who has greater potential of being attacked. Then there are players who realize this and try to attack out the potential Jailor thinking that TPs/Lookouts would be elsewhere.

This a game that evolves the longer it exists.

While I understand that, I feel like it's always smarter to save Jailor unless there's already multiple other town claims. Not only can you confirm yourself via LO, but you can also kill suiciding evils (especially SKs that don't want to lose elo by leaving).
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby nicecomebackm8 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:47 pm

yeah don't claim jailor on d1
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby VeronicaMage » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:14 am

You can give cover to the real Jailor, I suppose, but this isn’t the right setup for it.

Also that probably wasn’t what they were doing.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby ChemicalKing » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:10 pm

Anyar wrote:While I understand that, I feel like it's always smarter to save Jailor unless there's already multiple other town claims. Not only can you confirm yourself via LO, but you can also kill suiciding evils (especially SKs that don't want to lose elo by leaving).


Nobody is confirmed at that point. While it is unlikely that anybody else would be Jailor, it is still possible that the claim is a lie. The smart play is whatever the player feels is necessary.
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Re: D1 Jailor claims

Postby Anyar » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:10 pm

ChemicalKing wrote:
Anyar wrote:While I understand that, I feel like it's always smarter to save Jailor unless there's already multiple other town claims. Not only can you confirm yourself via LO, but you can also kill suiciding evils (especially SKs that don't want to lose elo by leaving).


Nobody is confirmed at that point. While it is unlikely that anybody else would be Jailor, it is still possible that the claim is a lie. The smart play is whatever the player feels is necessary.

I'm saying that if you visit a tp/lo request, a LO can confirm that you visited (and can confirm that you are a visiting role, that you are not a killing role, that you're not mafia via Spy, etc).

And let's be honest, fake Jailor claims are quite uncommon. Assuming we're still talking about d1 Jailor claims, there's probably not many other people to protect anyway without just randoing.
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