Possible Retributionist Change

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Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:10 pm

So at the moment retributionist (or retri as I will call it for now on) is both too overpowered and boring after the ability has been used. They get confirmed instantly after use and the only way to fix it is greatly nerfing whispers. My idea is to make it so the retri changes roles after use. The change would go like this.

75% of the time you would turn to Medium
15% of the time you would turn to Witch
10% of the time you would turn to Doctor

This would make it that retri claims would be suspicious. It would also have a special message on the line of:

You realized you're good at healing. You are now a Doctor.
You realized you're connected to the dead. You are now a Medium.
You realized you're true psychic abilities. You are now a Witch.

Tell me what you think in comments. Open to all suggestions and criticism.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:14 pm

/nosupport

1. Conversion makes it unfair to the player, town could be winning then the player would lose by RNG
2. Retri is OP as is, doesn’t need to gain an ability after.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby lemonader666 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:37 pm

That just makes the role shittier, now you have a random chance of being converted after being revived. It doesn't solve anything.
Reviving, RNG and Conversion are all horrible traits for mechanics/roles
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:34 am

I see where you two are coming from, but naturally I have to protect myself.

1.When a retri revives someone, one of 4 things happens.

Mafia kills retri just because they are retri
Retri does absolutely nothing the rest of the game
Retri is and the revived are confirmed innocent and town gets an auto-win due to not enough people left
The revived dies right after being revived.

This fixes these problems because:
Mafia could kill a witch
Mafia could be skittish from the possibility of doctor healing revived
Revived has a chance to be healed

Also retri will never claim because high chances of being lynched.
Using this, retri becomes slightly more op by itself but could at the same time win the game for mafia. I have gotten support for this already. Please tell me if you have any suggestions to tweak my idea.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:37 am

It doesn't, do you not know what skill is?
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:53 am

I'm asking for suggestions and a friendly argument. You are just saying 'no' over and over again.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Chemist1422 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:05 pm

Helicooler wrote:I see where you two are coming from, but naturally I have to protect myself.

1.When a retri revives someone, one of 4 things happens.

Mafia kills retri just because they are retri - A benefit to town, because retri is pretty much useless
Retri does absolutely nothing the rest of the game - I mean it should act as an extra vote and scumreader
Retri is and the revived are confirmed innocent and town gets an auto-win due to not enough people left - Which is OP, and your rework makes it even worse
The revived dies right after being revived. - Which is part of the risk of reviving and takes skill

This fixes these problems because:
Mafia could kill a witch - Actually no, the witch has basic defense for the first attack
Mafia could be skittish from the possibility of doctor healing revived - That could happen without the change anyway
Revived has a chance to be healed - See above

Also retri will never claim because high chances of being lynched. - ???
Using this, retri becomes slightly more op by itself but could at the same time win the game for mafia. - Or lose the game for retri due to no fault of its own
I have gotten support for this already. Please tell me if you have any suggestions to tweak my idea.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:46 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
Helicooler wrote:I see where you two are coming from, but naturally I have to protect myself.

1.When a retri revives someone, one of 4 things happens.

Mafia kills retri just because they are retri - A confirmed town dies
Retri does absolutely nothing the rest of the game - You contradicted yourself here
Retri and the revived are confirmed innocent and town gets an auto-win due to not enough people left - That is what happens usually, you just said proven my point
The revived dies right after being revived. - There is no skill involved in this

This fixes these problems because:
Mafia could kill a witch - Sorry for not including this earlier, but I meant that all one-time abilities wouldnt happen.
Mafia could be skittish from the possibility of doctor healing revived - Mafia is even skittier
Revived has a chance to be healed - See above

Also retri will never claim because higher chances of being lynched. - Gets lynched for being possible witch
Using this, retri becomes slightly more op by itself but could at the same time win the game for mafia. - Retri already does this
I have gotten support for this already. Please tell me if you have any suggestions to tweak my idea.


I am getting a inception vibe now.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Chemist1422 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Helicooler wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
Helicooler wrote:I see where you two are coming from, but naturally I have to protect myself.

1.When a retri revives someone, one of 4 things happens.

Mafia kills retri just because they are retri - A confirmed town dies So? Any other townie could die then instantly become confirmed.
Retri does absolutely nothing the rest of the game - You contradicted yourself here No I didn't.
Retri and the revived are confirmed innocent and town gets an auto-win due to not enough people left - That is what happens usually, you just said proven my point Yes, but your rework does nothing to fix this.
The revived dies right after being revived. - There is no skill involved in this I disagree, Retri has to learn to revive at the right time to avoid this happening

This fixes these problems because:
Mafia could kill a witch - Sorry for not including this earlier, but I meant that all one-time abilities wouldnt happen. Still doesn't help, that would screw a retri out of a win because mafia wouldn't take a 15% bet
Mafia could be skittish from the possibility of doctor healing revived - Mafia is even skittier 1. Skittier is not a word
2. A 10% chance of an extra TP just buffs town even more and hurts the balance of the game

Revived has a chance to be healed - See above

Also retri will never claim because higher chances of being lynched. - Gets lynched for being possible witch Which, if they are witch, screws them out of a win
Using this, retri becomes slightly more op by itself but could at the same time win the game for mafia. - Retri already does this No it doesn't, not unless you revive a gamethrower
I have gotten support for this already. Please tell me if you have any suggestions to tweak my idea.


I am getting a inception vibe now.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:22 pm

So, using your ability has a 10% chance to insta lose the game for you. Basically, it's mid game and you use your ability. You turn into a Witch and are punished for absolutely no reason other than pure RNG. Win Condition Conversion roles will never work. Also turning into a Doc/Med makes no sense and makes the Retributionist even more overpowered than it already is trumping roles like Jailor in sheer power.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:21 pm

This was posted as an idea, not a definite good idea, this is why I said to give suggestions. I did say multiple times, and if you just DON'T CLAIM RETRI you will live as witch and then be able to change the game in favor of mafia. It seems that you don't get my original point. Also you are not reading it properly as shown by you saying 10 % witch. The chances were

75% Medium
15% Witch
10% Doctor

It usually becomes a worse role but can become op through the unlikely chance of getting a doc, or getting a witch.

Note-You are just saying 'no' again because you did contradict yourself, you both said retri was useless and too op.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:28 pm

Helicooler wrote:This was posted as an idea, not a definite good idea, this is why I said to give suggestions. I did say multiple times, and if you just DON'T CLAIM RETRI you will live as witch and then be able to change the game in favor of mafia. It seems that you don't get my original point. Also you are not reading it properly as shown by you saying 10 % witch. The chances were

75% Medium
15% Witch
10% Doctor

It usually becomes a worse role but can become op through the unlikely chance of getting a doc, or getting a witch.

Note-You are just saying 'no' again because you did contradict yourself, you both said retri was useless and too op.

No one said Retri is useless here, no one.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:42 pm

Helicooler wrote:I'm asking for suggestions and a friendly argument. You are just saying 'no' over and over again.

I'm just gonna keep doing that if you keep thinking that RNG, swing, conversion and gamethrow-y mechanics are perfectly fine at not terrible at all for ToS, which is a skill based game.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby greenrabbit7 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:38 pm

Do not use rng. Maybe make it dependent on when they revive, but even then... just no.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:43 am

Abandoning this idea. If you don't like it, just do what I said and suggest something else instead of just telling me how it is bad over and over again.

Edit-Did you just say that instead of suggesting things you were going to say no until you realize it was bad? I will say this one more time, this wasn't what I meant when I made this.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby lemonader666 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:55 am

Helicooler wrote:Abandoning this idea. If you don't like it, just do what I said and suggest something else instead of just telling me how it is bad over and over again.

Edit-Did you just say that instead of suggesting things you were going to say no until you realize it was bad? I will say this one more time, this wasn't what I meant when I made this.

There have already been better suggestions for this role. Check the Testing Grounds for actually balanced roles/changes(including ret but that's still meh tbh
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Helicooler » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:47 am

I literally just said I was abandoning this role. You can stop posting here now because there is no reason to.
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Re: Possible Retributionist Change

Postby Flake » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:17 am

OP has made it clear that this idea has been abandoned. Thread moved to archives.

If you are the OP and wish for this idea to be moved from the archives back into Role Ideas, please send me a direct message.

Thanks!
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