Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Implement my Jester?

Yes!
25
38%
Yes, but as a new role!
18
28%
No!
22
34%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Jackparrot » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:49 pm

Paralex, Your jest should not affect NKs as they have a way to low win rate.
I am not as active as I used to be, although I should be somewhat active.
Jackparrot
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:16 am

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:14 pm

Villagerlover wrote:I disagree.
Town is way too lynch-happy.

It's very hard not to make a mistake every few games because there are a lot of things that can go wrong as you lie your way out of the ropes. Especially when it's something completely out of your control as an evil role.
Jester's kind of serve as a way to help cover that up. If we were in a setting where there were never any naturally-spawning jesters, then the town would be way too confident in who they lynch since they know for a fact that a jester is way too unlikely.
Sure, there's Executioners, but those do not function the same a jester from the start.

You guys are making it sound like people who take on the role of jesters are people who say really obvious, dumb and meaningless crap in the chat to get themselves lynched. And that's not the case at all.
Jester's can play cleverly, and that's the town's fault for not realizing who they end up lynching.

Jesters should remain in ranked for the sake of not making the town so confident. Townies already have overpowered, unclaimable and unbalanced roles. So why would anyone want them to gain even more confidence in who they decide to lynch?

I also disagree. If a mafia member commits a mistake, he totally deserves to be lynched. The point of the game is finding who commits mistakes or making people commit them. Putting jesters in ranked so people can commit mistakes and get away with it isn't a good idea, especially in a competitive gamemode.
And about executioners, I think that if jesters were turned into NB, then exes should be reworked into a not-convertable role who can only win with town. They already make the town scared of lynching, and with that rework, they would be even more scared. Making town unwilling to trust every accusation is not that bad (although I find really annoying the fact that evils can be innoed just by screaming "exe!" and posting a will), but making them unwilling to lynch suspicious people is bad in a competitve gamemode.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Villagerlover » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:42 pm

Joacgroso wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:I disagree.
Town is way too lynch-happy.

It's very hard not to make a mistake every few games because there are a lot of things that can go wrong as you lie your way out of the ropes. Especially when it's something completely out of your control as an evil role.
Jester's kind of serve as a way to help cover that up. If we were in a setting where there were never any naturally-spawning jesters, then the town would be way too confident in who they lynch since they know for a fact that a jester is way too unlikely.
Sure, there's Executioners, but those do not function the same a jester from the start.

You guys are making it sound like people who take on the role of jesters are people who say really obvious, dumb and meaningless crap in the chat to get themselves lynched. And that's not the case at all.
Jester's can play cleverly, and that's the town's fault for not realizing who they end up lynching.

Jesters should remain in ranked for the sake of not making the town so confident. Townies already have overpowered, unclaimable and unbalanced roles. So why would anyone want them to gain even more confidence in who they decide to lynch?

I also disagree. If a mafia member commits a mistake, he totally deserves to be lynched. The point of the game is finding who commits mistakes or making people commit them. Putting jesters in ranked so people can commit mistakes and get away with it isn't a good idea, especially in a competitive gamemode.

Why not? Why does it "have" to be this way? Making a mistake, and then being caught in Town of Salem is an absolutely lousy excuse to say they should be lynched because mistakes often happen that're completely out of the player's control. For instance, the rolelist setup is awful. No matter how good your sheriff claim is, when the town finds out that more TI roles aren't possible, they 100% know it's you. And that's a shitty way to deal with this cause there was absolutely no way for you to determine who was going to die from means outside of your control.

Mistakes that are often made are not made because of poor player plays, it's because the of random chance of who dies, eliminating claim space 1 by 1.
Even the mere presence of a jester easily makes people think twice about their voting patterns. And it should remain that way in a ranked setting so that town doesn't decimate everyone with no mercy.


And about executioners, I think that if jesters were turned into NB, then exes should be reworked into a not-convertable role who can only win with town. They already make the town scared of lynching, and with that rework, they would be even more scared. Making town unwilling to trust every accusation is not that bad (although I find really annoying the fact that evils can be innoed just by screaming "exe!" and posting a will), but making them unwilling to lynch suspicious people is bad in a competitve gamemode.

Why the heck would you want the executioner to win with town? It's Neutral evil, not Town.......

People should not only be scared of lynching from an accusation, but they should also be scared of lynching a jester as well. It's just better on the evil's part of the spectrum.


Wanna say somethin'? >B3
PM
User avatar
Villagerlover
Consigliere
Consigliere
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:59 pm
Location: Hang on I need to ask Google Maps

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:12 pm

Villagerlover wrote:
Joacgroso wrote:I also disagree. If a mafia member commits a mistake, he totally deserves to be lynched. The point of the game is finding who commits mistakes or making people commit them. Putting jesters in ranked so people can commit mistakes and get away with it isn't a good idea, especially in a competitive gamemode.

Why not? Why does it "have" to be this way? Making a mistake, and then being caught in Town of Salem is an absolutely lousy excuse to say they should be lynched because mistakes often happen that're completely out of the player's control. For instance, the rolelist setup is awful. No matter how good your sheriff claim is, when the town finds out that more TI roles aren't possible, they 100% know it's you. And that's a shitty way to deal with this cause there was absolutely no way for you to determine who was going to die from means outside of your control.

Then fix the rolelist, make town roles less confirmable, or buff the evils. Don't add roles only meant to "make town scared of lynching suspicious people". Town IS suposed to lynch suspicious people and they shouldn't be penalized because of that. Although I love playing as jester, I know that they don't belong to ranked. Also, if someone is out of your control, then it's not a mistake. But if evils reached a point where all townies alive are confirmed, then, as HTE said, they played badly and deserve the loss. If it was unfair because of the rolelist, then fix the rolelist. And if it was indeed their fault, then they deserve the lynch. But adding jesters isn't the right way of fixing that issue.


Villagerlover wrote:Mistakes that are often made are not made because of poor player plays, it's because the of random chance of who dies, eliminating claim space 1 by 1.

Then they are not mistakes. You are saying that jesters should stay in ranked because there is bad claimspace. That's not the right way of fixing that. Just fix the rolelist, or implement the multiple, hidden rolelists that were suggested some time ago. Also, deaths are not really out of their control. They usually choose who to kill. Killing the claimspace of a member of another faction in order to get rid of him is a valid strategy.

Villagerlover wrote:Even the mere presence of a jester easily makes people think twice about their voting patterns. And it should remain that way in a ranked setting so that town doesn't decimate everyone with no mercy.

Why? As I said, we already have exes making town distrust most accusations. We don't need another role to make town not lynch suspicious players. Scumreading in ranked should be encouraged, not reduced by making townies unsecure of their leads because "they might be jester". That encourage using night abilities only in order to win.

Villagerlover wrote:
Joacgroso wrote:And about executioners, I think that if jesters were turned into NB, then exes should be reworked into a not-convertable role who can only win with town EVILS. They already make the town scared of lynching, and with that rework, they would be even more scared. Making town unwilling to trust every accusation is not that bad (although I find really annoying the fact that evils can be innoed just by screaming "exe!" and posting a will), but making them unwilling to lynch suspicious people is bad in a competitve gamemode.

Why the heck would you want the executioner to win with town? It's Neutral evil, not Town.......

*facepalm* I wrote town instead of evils. My bad. I meant that if jesters were changed to NB, exes should be reworked into a role that can't win with town nor turn into a jester.

Villagerlover wrote:People should not only be scared of lynching from an accusation, but they should also be scared of lynching a jester as well. It's just better on the evil's part of the spectrum.

No, it's not. Not in ranked, at least. If an evil commits a mistake, then he deserves to be lynched in a competitve gamemode. And if they were found due to low claimspace, then fix the rolelist. And actually, the lack of jesters in ranked would benefict evils even more than if they stayed, because it would increase the odds of a witch spawning, which is way better than any other NE role right now. And besides, evils shouldn't win due to the lazy strat of being suspicious. They should try to deceive the town and cause misslynches, not just be suspicious in order to make town scared of lynching.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby OnlyA » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Jester NEEDS to be there to stop the town from lynching every day. VFR is already very powerful and doesn't need a buff.

Playing as jester is difficult, especially if the jailor suspects you. A jester can help a vigilante prove himself as well.

Also, you are eliminating claimspace, albeit desperate claimspace.

I would be find with reworking the jester to punish town more than punish mafia, but other than that, jester is fine as is.

Executioner definitely doesn't need a change.

/no support.
OnlyA
Escort
Escort
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:51 pm

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:20 pm

OnlyA wrote:Jester NEEDS to be there to stop the town from lynching every day. VFR is already very powerful and doesn't need a buff.

Playing as jester is difficult, especially if the jailor suspects you. A jester can help a vigilante prove himself as well.

Also, you are eliminating claimspace, albeit desperate claimspace.

I would be find with reworking the jester to punish town more than punish mafia, but other than that, jester is fine as is.

Executioner definitely doesn't need a change.

/no support.

Executioners already make town scared of lynching. And you know who else can do it? The mafia! If town is too lynch-happy, then make them lynch town members by accusing non voters and ccing, then calling them disguisers. Making town unwilling to trust every accusation isn't bad, but scaring them of lynching suspicious people is stupid, since lynching suspicious people is town's goal. Their goal is literally "lynch every criminal and evildoer". Also,you said that jesters can help vigis prove themselves, but that would be absolute gamethrowing. And besides, why should a NE role help town? That would prove that they are a bad NE role. Changing jesters to NB wouldn't reduce claimspace, since the NE slot would stay. And anyway, claiming NE only works if town is stupid.
Reworking jesters into a real NE role wouldn't be bad balancewise, but it would totally ruin the role imo. Reducing their free will when they are going to haunt, or making them passively punish town would be boring and less rewarding. The challenge of being lynched and then killing whoever you fooled is very funny imo. Even if jesters were reworked, the origial jester should stay as NB. About exes, they definitely need a change, because they are NE roles and can side with town anyway without it being considered gamethrowing. No NE role should be able to win with town. That's the point of NBs: winning with anyone.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby mrminecraft03 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:56 am

You should add a section in the poll like "Yes, but needs some tweaking." I think that the jester can disable towns killing power for the whole games seems too op
Image
#TeamShay #TeamEzio
User avatar
mrminecraft03
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:18 am
Location: Under Your Bed While You Sleep.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Blackwolfe99 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:31 pm

mrminecraft03 wrote:You should add a section in the poll like "Yes, but needs some tweaking." I think that the jester can disable towns killing power for the whole games seems too op

As I understand it, it doesn't. It only stops lynching for a day, like the Fool in Throne of Lies.
Image




Currently Working On:
-Nothing now. A several month hiatus lead to me abandoning my ideas.

EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW

/support
User avatar
Blackwolfe99
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:01 pm
Location: Watching over others from the Shadows.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby TwoSidedBot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:13 pm

From how it's written, you can either choose to pull a prank the current night or the following night (in case you're roleblocked, i'd assume). If this is the case, what happens if the Jester chooses to pull a prank the following night and is also plundered by a Pirate the following night?
i will produced baby for you

Spoiler: discord: snaek#6564
User avatar
TwoSidedBot
Jester
Jester
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:40 pm
Location: viewbotting townie man

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby BasicFourLife » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:24 pm

TwoSidedBot wrote:From how it's written, you can either choose to pull a prank the current night or the following night (in case you're roleblocked, i'd assume). If this is the case, what happens if the Jester chooses to pull a prank the following night and is also plundered by a Pirate the following night?

During night you decide
- To apply the prank for CURRENT night
- To apply the prank for day

So your concern doesn’t even exist.
I am kindly telling you to fuck off mate.

FM / TG: 5 - 10 - 8
BasicFourLife
[Forum Mafia XVI] Winner
[Forum Mafia XVI] Winner
 
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:47 am
Location: UTC +2/+3 - Somewhere hidden

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby ZackTheMaf666 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:54 pm

So let me get this straight: when the new jester dies, every faction is screwed the following night? I don’t get this.
User avatar
ZackTheMaf666
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:45 am
Location: I’m in your house

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Helicooler » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:22 pm

Please no necrobumpino. When a post gets buried and died it's usually because people want it to.
//
currently doing research
join my fanclub here
we play popcorn man and talk about how great i am
User avatar
Helicooler
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Parallax7 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:42 pm

Helicooler wrote:Please no necrobumpino. When a post gets buried and died it's usually because people want it to.


Uh ~ well, not necessarily, this is just a fleshed out and complete idea. Besides had a developer inform this concept will be implemented to some degree someday.
FM Record

3-0-5-2


Newest YouTube Video

Spoiler:

Discord: Parallax#4977
User avatar
Parallax7
Christmas 2018 Winner
Christmas 2018 Winner
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:01 pm
Location: .-. .. --. .... - / -... . .... .. -. -.. / -.-- --- ..- (EST)

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Mace8937 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:58 pm

Parallax7 wrote:
Helicooler wrote:Please no necrobumpino. When a post gets buried and died it's usually because people want it to.


Uh ~ well, not necessarily, this is just a fleshed out and complete idea. Besides had a developer inform this concept will be implemented to some degree someday.


Orphan? Drug Dealer? Both forgotten to time. Just like this idea. Both were excellent ideas and were well received and were quite able to be balanced into the game.

That never happened. This Overhaul is the same.
I think its time for a fucking Crusade

"Anyone can deal with Victory, only the mighty can bear defeat" ~ Adolf Hitler
User avatar
Mace8937
Consigliere
Consigliere
 
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Why do you care

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Parallax7 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:06 pm

Mace8937 wrote:
Parallax7 wrote:
Helicooler wrote:Please no necrobumpino. When a post gets buried and died it's usually because people want it to.


Uh ~ well, not necessarily, this is just a fleshed out and complete idea. Besides had a developer inform this concept will be implemented to some degree someday.


Orphan? Drug Dealer? Both forgotten to time. Just like this idea. Both were excellent ideas and were well received and were quite able to be balanced into the game.

That never happened. This Overhaul is the same.


Sheesh Mace.
I mean, Drug Dealer was added. Not sure I agree about Orphan being balanced, but I haven’t really reviewed it in quite some time.
FM Record

3-0-5-2


Newest YouTube Video

Spoiler:

Discord: Parallax#4977
User avatar
Parallax7
Christmas 2018 Winner
Christmas 2018 Winner
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:01 pm
Location: .-. .. --. .... - / -... . .... .. -. -.. / -.-- --- ..- (EST)

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

Postby Mace8937 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:40 pm

Parallax7 wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:
Parallax7 wrote:
Helicooler wrote:Please no necrobumpino. When a post gets buried and died it's usually because people want it to.


Uh ~ well, not necessarily, this is just a fleshed out and complete idea. Besides had a developer inform this concept will be implemented to some degree someday.


Orphan? Drug Dealer? Both forgotten to time. Just like this idea. Both were excellent ideas and were well received and were quite able to be balanced into the game.

That never happened. This Overhaul is the same.


Sheesh Mace.
I mean, Drug Dealer was added. Not sure I agree about Orphan being balanced, but I haven’t really reviewed it in quite some time.


My bad, DD was added in Coven.
But like I complained on all three of Scorpio's necrobumped posts, necrobumping doesn't get the post any more publicity or reviewing or feedback that it would a year ago when this was made.
Just let it go. If it has potential then it will get added, if not, try new original ideas.
I think its time for a fucking Crusade

"Anyone can deal with Victory, only the mighty can bear defeat" ~ Adolf Hitler
User avatar
Mace8937
Consigliere
Consigliere
 
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Why do you care

Previous

Return to Role Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests