Town of Salem 1.5 - Outdated?

Leave your suggestions about the game here!

Are Town Leader (formerly Town Power) and the resulting Mayor/Retributionist buffs good ideas?

Buff Mayor and Retributionist so they can fit in Town Leader with the more powerful Jailor.
142
56%
Make Retributionist die when it revives a player and keep it Town Support. Add another Town Leader role.
31
12%
Make Retributionist die when it revives a player and keep it Town Support. Have only Mayor and Jailor as Town Leader.
25
10%
Nerf Mayor and Retributionist, and have a confirmed Jailor. No Town Leader.
56
22%
 
Total votes : 254

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:10 am

orangeandblack5 wrote:Added two new, small Bodyguard nerfs to bring it more in line with Doctor:

-Can not be healed when sacrificed protecting somebody
-Can not protect from Arsonist's douse

>never implemented on the OP
>qq

Also, does vigilante have Jailor's guilt?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby doublenikesocks » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:22 am

Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:23 am

doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

orangeandblack5 wrote:Proportional winrates are the upper limit for the winrate split imo

Personally I'd like to see Town and Mafia be evenly matched, which puts a lot more emphasis on player skill to determine Elo. NK wins should, in my opinion, be around 5% in Ranked (certainly no more than 10%), which is essentially proportional. This gives me an ideal winrate somewhere between 42.5/42.5/5 and 60/30/10 T/M/NK, although the closer to the first one the better imo.

The worst problem with running strictly proportional winrates (or higher, like currently) is that what role you get directly impacts your chances and reduces the role of player skill. Evenly matched teams mean that player skill on each team determines the victor, whilst proportional winrates lead to what is essentially feeding whoever rolls Town the most the most Elo while trying to make everybody win as much as they can (it's hard to explain, I hope you get what I'm getting at - basically, it's the reason that asymmetrical games like Evolve shoot for each team to have an even winrate instead of giving the hunters an 80% chance and the monster a 20% chance).
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Achilles wrote: Btw we have a Unity port with an entire graphics and UI/UX overhaul in the works slotted for fall of this year.

SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby randomguyhavingfun » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:35 am

doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

The game is eant to force players to work hard for their victory and reward the players who played better . So no I rate should go higher than 50%. The nks should have a serious chance of winning but since the game is based on town versus mafia they are forced to a lower one.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby doublenikesocks » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:41 pm

randomguyhavingfun wrote:
doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

The game is eant to force players to work hard for their victory and reward the players who played better . So no I rate should go higher than 50%. The nks should have a serious chance of winning but since the game is based on town versus mafia they are forced to a lower one.

I see. I still don't like the idea of maf having close to 50% winrate because that places a greater emphasis on townies playing better even though they will on average recieve more bad players than mafia. If there's one really bad player per game, (there usually is) then town's going to get that player 7/15 or 8/15 of the time while maf will get them 1/5 or 4/15. Either way arso wins are still incredibly hard. I seem to win the most with WW of any of the NK though.

orangeandblack5 wrote:
doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

orangeandblack5 wrote:Proportional winrates are the upper limit for the winrate split imo

Personally I'd like to see Town and Mafia be evenly matched, which puts a lot more emphasis on player skill to determine Elo. NK wins should, in my opinion, be around 5% in Ranked (certainly no more than 10%), which is essentially proportional. This gives me an ideal winrate somewhere between 42.5/42.5/5 and 60/30/10 T/M/NK, although the closer to the first one the better imo.

The worst problem with running strictly proportional winrates (or higher, like currently) is that what role you get directly impacts your chances and reduces the role of player skill. Evenly matched teams mean that player skill on each team determines the victor, whilst proportional winrates lead to what is essentially feeding whoever rolls Town the most the most Elo while trying to make everybody win as much as they can (it's hard to explain, I hope you get what I'm getting at - basically, it's the reason that asymmetrical games like Evolve shoot for each team to have an even winrate instead of giving the hunters an 80% chance and the monster a 20% chance).

Yeah I get you. I guess I'd give it a try. See my point above.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby darkd123 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:03 pm

I know this information is completely useless and doesn't matter at all, but I'm the only person here who isn't a guest at the moment. :D

Anyway, I think the Sheriff is a little too buffed. I mean, all of the buffs would allow Sheriffs -who care more about winning than being annoying- to use annoying strategies that Vampires, Arsonists, E.T.C Won't be able to avoid. (An example would be a Sheriff interrogating a revealed mayor to see if he was bitten by a vampire.) And since Sheriffs usually say the interrogation results in their will, they would be confirmed evil roles. The problem with making these new roles shown to a Sheriff is that most of the roles that already are shown to Sheriff are easy to get other people the idea that you were shown to be evil because a certain thing happened, such as you being framed or a Werewolf was transed with you but were healed by a Doc. But with these new roles being shown to the Sheriff, the very small amount of situations where you weren't that role but it was just the circumstances you were in I assume would be hard to figure out.

I also think that with the new Ranked roles, there should be Random Mafia instead of Mafia support or Mafia deception. It would be easier for Townies to confirm their roles, allowing people to use process of elimination to find out who the criminals and evildoers are.That's just what I think, though. I know there is probably a few flaws, but whatever.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:00 am

Vampires shouldn't be biting a revealing Mayor if that Mayor can be lynched the next day.

Also, dark, pay attention to the person who posted before you. The last thing anyone said here was from December 13th. It's common courtesy to not "necrobump" a thread like this. When you post on a thread, it brings that thread to the top, therefore it is 'bumped' and if it's an old thread, then it's necrobumped'.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby Ufiix » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:12 pm

I feel that Jailor is and should be as powerful as it is. Giving less executions would cripple the role too much. We have NB roles that can side with the evils and the Neutral Evils and the NK and the Mafia. It needs 3 executions if you're going to be buffing all the evil roles. I know town has a high win ratio but its not because of the Jailor it's the Evil roles being too weak to do much about it.

Also add to mayor if you role block them maybe they cant reveal next day? IDK I just find mayors reveal annoying and you cant do anything about it either
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:40 pm

There was a suggestion a while back to make revealing a night action (that can therefore be RB'd).

It gained a decent amount of traction.
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Spoiler:
Achilles wrote: Btw we have a Unity port with an entire graphics and UI/UX overhaul in the works slotted for fall of this year.

SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:50 pm

But it doesn't work when the Mayor is Town Power (why did it change to Town Leader q.q)

Also, does Vigilante have Jailor's guilt?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

Postby alex1234321 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:02 pm

Kirize12 wrote:But it doesn't work when the Mayor is Town Power (why did it change to Town Leader q.q)

Also, does Vigilante have Jailor's guilt?

It was changed to Town Leader because of the people who say that it is a bad idea because of its name.
#SaveTheMayor

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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - Outdated?

Postby Purple998 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:36 pm

CyloDaDragonYT wrote:
Neutral Chaos removed OR restricted to Chaos game modes

So you cant use vamps, plague/pest, or pirate in custom




Why...? why did you necro this?? now they are gonna lock this precious thread :(
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - Outdated?

Postby orangeandblack5 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:15 pm

CyloDaDragonYT wrote:
Neutral Chaos removed OR restricted to Chaos game modes

So you cant use vamps, plague/pest, or pirate in custom

Nope, just in Chaotic Custom.
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Spoiler:
Achilles wrote: Btw we have a Unity port with an entire graphics and UI/UX overhaul in the works slotted for fall of this year.

SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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