My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Put any feedback about the game here.

My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Fri May 22, 2020 5:40 am

It's bad. It's the only TI role that is constantly fed information about what players are good and evil. I know spy has a similar mechanic, but at least spy isn't straight up given three names to suspect every other night. Psychic, as it is, is not fun to play as or against. It can also be harmful to the town, as it can force important targets for evils to come out. It can also confirm players as good or evil, which is too overpowered. Yes, it doesn't get an exact vision that tells them exactly who is evil, but the fact that at least 1/3 of the players in the evil vision are evil (and up to 3/3) is already enough. The good visions are maybe even worse. While they are definitely not as useful as the evil visions (some players actively ignore the good visions), it still guarantees that at least 1/2 of the players in the good vision are either NB or Town. In gamemodes where NB isn't as prevalent (a good example being VIP, where there is only one NB role), it becomes way too powerful, giving the psychic the ability to easily figure out who is town. My main problem with it is that you don't really do anything to get info. You just sit there as the evils and goods are fed to you. It relies solely on RNG. One could argue that RNG is central to ToS in the first place, since everyone is randomly assigned a role. However, with psychic, you are told every night evils and goods, unless you are roleblocked in some way. I've thought about ways to rework psychic, but in the end I suck at that kind of thing. The next best thing to do for me is to say what I think is wrong with it.
pistachios are more intelligent than humans
-our pistachio overlord

pls flame me and criticise this terrible guide here —> https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=108749 i wanna improve it, all criticisms are appreciated
User avatar
KAKERMAN23
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:18 am
Location: New York City

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby Descender » Fri May 22, 2020 5:41 am

rng in a role is not good, TIs being OP is not good, overhaul psy
The platform reached lower and lower depths into the new world, a dark world in which not many had been before. It would seem that my stories of going into this other world be praised, but no. It would seem that I would be known as a hero for discovering this, but no. To many I was simply known as... Descender.

I tend to go between cute and distorted hellscapes for pfps. I dont know why.
User avatar
Descender
[Forum Mafia XX] Winner
[Forum Mafia XX] Winner
 
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: Currently Descending (2/10)

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby kyuss420 » Sat May 23, 2020 1:55 am

in vip its easy to figure out who is town anyway, and if coven havent done their job properly by n3, they desrve to be outed (even tho they usually are already obvious by then). If psy wasnt in that game mode, thered be a ton more claims day 2 due to VFR and a lot more roles being mislynched/outed than there is now. I mean, its a fast paced mode, coven lose because they waste time, not because of the psy vision. I mean, a psychic cant protect a VIP...

Outside of VIP, theres what.. AA, where most psy claims arent trusted, and if theyre real, theyre dead by day 3.

However, swapping evil visions to even nights and good visions to odd nights would be a decent enough overhaul, giving a pro coven a huge advantage in VIP, (except for being unable to get TPs to out themselves with a CC so easily - causing coven to target randomly, and therefore increasing the RNG factor) while not taking much power away from the town.
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby Descender » Sat May 23, 2020 7:19 am

kyuss420 wrote:in vip its easy to figure out who is town anyway, and if coven havent done their job properly by n3, they desrve to be outed (even tho they usually are already obvious by then). If psy wasnt in that game mode, thered be a ton more claims day 2 due to VFR and a lot more roles being mislynched/outed than there is now. I mean, its a fast paced mode, coven lose because they waste time, not because of the psy vision. I mean, a psychic cant protect a VIP...

Outside of VIP, theres what.. AA, where most psy claims arent trusted, and if theyre real, theyre dead by day 3.

However, swapping evil visions to even nights and good visions to odd nights would be a decent enough overhaul, giving a pro coven a huge advantage in VIP, (except for being unable to get TPs to out themselves with a CC so easily - causing coven to target randomly, and therefore increasing the RNG factor) while not taking much power away from the town.

or
or
you scrap the role concept
and DONT make a rng dependent role
The platform reached lower and lower depths into the new world, a dark world in which not many had been before. It would seem that my stories of going into this other world be praised, but no. It would seem that I would be known as a hero for discovering this, but no. To many I was simply known as... Descender.

I tend to go between cute and distorted hellscapes for pfps. I dont know why.
User avatar
Descender
[Forum Mafia XX] Winner
[Forum Mafia XX] Winner
 
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: Currently Descending (2/10)

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby MysticMismagius » Sat May 23, 2020 10:54 am

^ Fucking this
The fact that Psychic is OP is only part of the problem
Even if you make it not OP anymore, the RNG-dependence in its ability is still bad
Image
Happy Pride Month!
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Disguiser
Disguiser
 
Posts: 1026
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby kyuss420 » Sat May 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Descender wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:in vip its easy to figure out who is town anyway, and if coven havent done their job properly by n3, they desrve to be outed (even tho they usually are already obvious by then). If psy wasnt in that game mode, thered be a ton more claims day 2 due to VFR and a lot more roles being mislynched/outed than there is now. I mean, its a fast paced mode, coven lose because they waste time, not because of the psy vision. I mean, a psychic cant protect a VIP...

Outside of VIP, theres what.. AA, where most psy claims arent trusted, and if theyre real, theyre dead by day 3.

However, swapping evil visions to even nights and good visions to odd nights would be a decent enough overhaul, giving a pro coven a huge advantage in VIP, (except for being unable to get TPs to out themselves with a CC so easily - causing coven to target randomly, and therefore increasing the RNG factor) while not taking much power away from the town.

or
or
you scrap the role concept
and DONT make a rng dependent role


Thats half the roles in the game gone then.....
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby MysticMismagius » Sat May 23, 2020 9:41 pm

kyuss420 wrote:
Descender wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:in vip its easy to figure out who is town anyway, and if coven havent done their job properly by n3, they desrve to be outed (even tho they usually are already obvious by then). If psy wasnt in that game mode, thered be a ton more claims day 2 due to VFR and a lot more roles being mislynched/outed than there is now. I mean, its a fast paced mode, coven lose because they waste time, not because of the psy vision. I mean, a psychic cant protect a VIP...

Outside of VIP, theres what.. AA, where most psy claims arent trusted, and if theyre real, theyre dead by day 3.

However, swapping evil visions to even nights and good visions to odd nights would be a decent enough overhaul, giving a pro coven a huge advantage in VIP, (except for being unable to get TPs to out themselves with a CC so easily - causing coven to target randomly, and therefore increasing the RNG factor) while not taking much power away from the town.
or
or
you scrap the role concept
and DONT make a rng dependent role
Thats half the roles in the game gone then.....
Half? How do you figure? I don't see anywhere near that many roles that have their abilities dictated by RNG.
Image
Happy Pride Month!
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Disguiser
Disguiser
 
Posts: 1026
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby Superalex11 » Sat May 23, 2020 9:49 pm

kyuss420 wrote:
Descender wrote:you scrap the role concept
and DONT make a rng dependent role

Thats half the roles in the game gone then.....

...no. The only roles which involve an rng at all are the psy, crus, bg, trap, amb, and pir. And then even among these, psy and pir* are still the only roles reliant on rng.

Personally I don't have a problem with psy as a whole, but we shouldn't pretend that these types of rng aspects in a game like this are desirable or even excusable.
Last edited by Superalex11 on Sat May 23, 2020 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
After-Unity™

luls:
Spoiler: Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Superalex11
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:11 pm

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby MysticMismagius » Sat May 23, 2020 9:55 pm

Superalex11 wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:
Descender wrote:you scrap the role concept
and DONT make a rng dependent role
Thats half the roles in the game gone then.....
...no. The only roles which involve an rng at all are the psy, crus, bg, trap, amb, and pir. And then even among these, psy and crus are still the only roles reliant on rng.

Personally I don't have a problem with psy as a whole, but we shouldn't pretend that these types of rng aspects in a game like this are desirable or even excusable.
Psy and Pirate? idk how crus is "reliant" on rng if ambu isn't
Image
Happy Pride Month!
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Disguiser
Disguiser
 
Posts: 1026
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby Superalex11 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:34 pm

oh I'm retarded that was a typo, meant psy and pir
After-Unity™

luls:
Spoiler: Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Superalex11
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:11 pm

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Sun May 24, 2020 5:34 am

pirate isn't really reliant on RNG. it's luck, sure, but not RNG, since it isn't randomly picking a defense and attack, you just need to get lucky and/or be good at predicting which defense someone is gonna use. The problem with psychic is that it is 100% reliant on RNG, since the three names it gets every non-full moon and the two names it gets every full moon are randomly rolled.
pistachios are more intelligent than humans
-our pistachio overlord

pls flame me and criticise this terrible guide here —> https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=108749 i wanna improve it, all criticisms are appreciated
User avatar
KAKERMAN23
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:18 am
Location: New York City

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby kyuss420 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:03 am

i dont understand what mode exactly, that you think its a problem in?

Psy kinda balances out the covens KPN ratio, but even without it, pros are gonna vfr day 2, unless coven distract the day chat somehow.

its not a huge problem in AA, with the amount its fake claimed, and usually results in the claimer being attacked early (but AA is pretty much RNG targeting for the first 2 nights anyway)

Its not a huge problem in VIP, unless a coven member died n1, but that mode is meant to be fast paced, and if coven are playing right, they wont have any claim space by day 3/4 anyway (and they dont really need claim space at that point, unless they fucked up n1 or n2)

Lovers Mode is just an RNG clusterfuck from the get go anyway

In ranked practice, it stops escort from moving n1 and counters the KPN.

If youre good at scumreading, you can throw your vision out the window and write your own (which i do a lot - yes, I fake my visions when i really am psychic and the people on it are already confirmed - and Im not the only one)
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: My thoughts about the Psychic role.

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:34 am

I get that it's "not a problem" when it comes to these modes. My problem with the role is that it's completely RNG based, which is kinda ironic considering the fact that it's generally discouraged to make RNG based roles in RI. I get all of the stuff you said and I agree to an extent.
pistachios are more intelligent than humans
-our pistachio overlord

pls flame me and criticise this terrible guide here —> https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=108749 i wanna improve it, all criticisms are appreciated
User avatar
KAKERMAN23
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:18 am
Location: New York City


Return to Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kourt and 2 guests