Spy (Town Investigative)

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Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:21 pm

Name: Spy
Alignment: Town Investigative
Summary: A talented observer who examines the dead in search of information.
Stats: Attack - None, Defense - None
Specials: None
Type: Non-Unique

Sheriff Results: You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.
Investigator Results: N/A
Consigliere Results: Your target frequents the graveyard in search of information. They must be a Spy.

Abilities:
- Examine a dead player.
- Inspect a living player.
Attributes:
- If you visit a living player, you will sketch their footprint in your notebook.
- If you visit a dead player, you will know if any of the footprints at the scene match the ones in your notebook. You will learn the exact night the player(s) in your notebook visited the deceased target. You will be informed how many players visited your target on the night of their death.

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.
Victory Conditions:
- (Current Town win conditions).

Achievements:
- Examination: Win 1 game as a Spy.
- Sleuth: Win 5 games as a Spy.
- Secret Agent: Win 10 games as a Spy.
- Espionage: Win 25 games as a Spy.
- It’s a Fiesta: Learn that your deceased target was visited by three or more players.
- Big Eyes: Learn the names of two or more players that visited your deceased target.
- Too Obvious: On the second night, discover the name of a player that visited your deceased target.

Notes:
- A Framer (mine) will make it appear as if a framed target visited the next checked deceased target.
- A Framer (current) will make it appear as if a framed target visited the player that was killed by the Mafia on the same night.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Me: postmortem Lookout
Most people on the forums: *loud screeching*

Yeah, this reworked Spy is actually a postmortem Lookout, however, I feel that I did an excellent job balancing it. Like the Tracker, it is never sure if the target that visited the deceased player is actually an evildoer.
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:Me: postmortem Lookout
Most people on the forums: *loud screeching*

Yeah, this reworked Spy is actually a postmortem Lookout, however, I feel that I did an excellent job balancing it. Like the Tracker, it is never sure if the target that visited the deceased player is actually an evildoer.


If a Tracker finds that someone visited someone who died, that person will still get lynched unless they're a completely confirmed person. This will be the same, so as it is I don't think this would/should be added at all. I could go further into detail but this should be enough.
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Re: Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:17 pm

Sounds like a role that should be named Detective.

I like the idea, however I don't think it should be used as a rework for a role named "Spy".

JacksonVirgo wrote:If a Tracker finds that someone visited someone who died, that person will still get lynched unless they're a completely confirmed person. This will be the same, so as it is I don't think this would/should be added at all. I could go further into detail but this should be enough.


This role and the Tracker each have the same chance of finding the Mafioso as the Sheriff does. Compared to the Sheriff, this role gains the ability to find the Godfather (sans Mafioso), but takes on a host of disadvantages, including the inability to find the Consig/Framer/Disguiser (before they transform), and the need to spend an extra night performing a "check" against the people previously visited.
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Re: Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:16 pm

Brilliand wrote:Sounds like a role that should be named Detective.

I like the idea, however I don't think it should be used as a rework for a role named "Spy".

JacksonVirgo wrote:If a Tracker finds that someone visited someone who died, that person will still get lynched unless they're a completely confirmed person. This will be the same, so as it is I don't think this would/should be added at all. I could go further into detail but this should be enough.


This role and the Tracker each have the same chance of finding the Mafioso as the Sheriff does. Compared to the Sheriff, this role gains the ability to find the Godfather (sans Mafioso), but takes on a host of disadvantages, including the inability to find the Consig/Framer/Disguiser (before they transform), and the need to spend an extra night performing a "check" against the people previously visited.

I would have named it Detective, but a role with that name is currently in the TG.

If I gave this role the ability to learn what night the living player visited the deceased one, would that make it not as weak, or would it still be worse than the other Town Investigatives?
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Re: Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:17 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:If I gave this role the ability to learn what night the living player visited the deceased one, would that make it not as weak, or would it still be worse than the other Town Investigatives?



Wait, so are you saying that the original role is to see if a player visited a dead target at any point in the game before they died? I always assumed you saw visits from the night of their death, but by you saying that I am not so sure it's what you mean anymore.
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Re: Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:26 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:If I gave this role the ability to learn what night the living player visited the deceased one, would that make it not as weak, or would it still be worse than the other Town Investigatives?


I kind of assumed it would only see which players visited the dead player on the night of death.

I wasn't trying to argue that the role is weak - I was just trying to counter JacksonVirgo's claim that it's too good at catching evils specifically. It has some advantages in the ability to catch liars that potentially make up for it being worse at directly catching scum than the Sheriff is.

However, if it gets information on which players ever visited the dead player without being able to tell which night it happened on, then perhaps it does need a buff; that information sounds overly vague.
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Re: Spy (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:41 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:If I gave this role the ability to learn what night the living player visited the deceased one, would that make it not as weak, or would it still be worse than the other Town Investigatives?



Wait, so are you saying that the original role is to see if a player visited a dead target at any point in the game before they died? I always assumed you saw visits from the night of their death, but by you saying that I am not so sure it's what you mean anymore.

Currently, if you examine a dead player, you will only know if a living player visited the deceased at any point in the game.
Brilliand wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:If I gave this role the ability to learn what night the living player visited the deceased one, would that make it not as weak, or would it still be worse than the other Town Investigatives?


I kind of assumed it would only see which players visited the dead player on the night of death.

I wasn't trying to argue that the role is weak - I was just trying to counter JacksonVirgo's claim that it's too good at catching evils specifically. It has some advantages in the ability to catch liars that potentially make up for it being worse at directly catching scum than the Sheriff is.

However, if it gets information on which players ever visited the dead player without being able to tell which night it happened on, then perhaps it does need a buff; that information sounds overly vague.

I think I have to buff it. After a comparison with other Town Investigative roles, I can see that it underperforms when it comes to either finding evildoers or confirming Town.
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