gender neutral role descriptions, please

[nevessa]

so as a girl i just think it would be nice to have the town role descriptions amended to be gender-neutral

pretty simple idea :3

[Yzaias]

I actually don't mind the descriptions, it adds more story to the game. It puts more character into the roles themselves.

Plus, it is a loooot of rewriting to do.

[nevessa]

i just mean the the brief descriptions that pop up after your role gets selected...

i noticed it after i got vigilante i think and i just thought it was weird. i think they'd have to change 1 word - "he" to "they"

[Mroz4k]

This game has sort of role-playing nature to it. Thats why the roles have certain genders.

In the victorian era, you wouldnt have a woman in the charge of the Town (Mayor), same with many other roles. Which is why majority of the roles are listed as "male".

Besides, I feel like it would confuse people who dont have English for their first language.

[Gobln]

/support

[nevessa]

that's really not a reason to keep them mostly male at all...
if you want to roleplay, you can roleplay as whatever gender you want if they were neautral. that's why it's called "neautral." it could be either.

it would be more inclusive.

[nevessa]

fix the pronouns and you help a lot of people while hurting none...

if you don't care, then you shouldn't mind if they were to be neutral c:

[Nellyfox]

Is this really an issue ? The default pronoun people use for things like this is "he", anyway. It is not directed at a person in particular.

When I talk to people I use they/them when I'm not sure on their biological sex, but still the pronouns are referring to the roles, and Mroz is right. People use "she/her" for "witch" all the time and no one cares, for example.

[nevessa]

it's an issue insofar that it's a really easy change that would make a difference to the people who do care, and not-at-all effect anyone else

i'm actually more offended by the privilege on display here than the descriptions themselves. "i don't care therefore no one could or should" is not a logical proposition :/

some of the roles actually already use gender-neutral language, so this suggestion is really just more like "please make that consistent"

[Nellyfox]

When did we ever use that as part of an argument ?

You may find it an issue, however others may not. The descriptions aren't affecting you at all, so I'm just confused why you find it an issue. Again the descriptions aren't targeted at people in particular, but the roles, which are given the pronouns based on lore most likely, as Mroz stated. No, the game is not 100% realistic, but there are some aspects to it that are that keep it in the setting.

[nevessa]

actually the descriptions are NOT aimed at the role, but at the player. the one I got was vigilante which says:

"YOU are a corrupt cop who takes the law into HIS own hands."

emphasis mine, but clearly, the game is calling me a boy :/ that's a bit problematic.

look at how much better it reads in a neutral format:

"You are a corrupt cop who takes the law into their own hands."

[Nellyfox]

Again, the default pronouns for these things are he/him. Maybe I don't understand, because really this is the internet and it isn't doing anything.

[nevessa]

the "default," ie: "tradition," ie: "just doing things for the sake of having always done them this way"

it's not a good reason to continue doing it when we know better.

and again, if you don't care/can't see why it would bother people, then congrats on your privilege =^..^=

[Yzaias]

the "default," ie: "tradition," ie: "just doing things for the sake of having always done them this way"

it's not a good reason to continue doing it when we know better.

If it ain't broke, do you really need it "fixed"?

[Nellyfox]

So should we change languages like Spanish for assigning a majority of their words a gender ? They do it because they've always done it that way and no one cares...

Course, set language is different then this, and the English language really screwed up with having gender pronouns instead of just using gender neutral pronouns like Turkish does. But I'm sorry for having an opinion, I'll remember to stay quiet next time because if I don't agree with someone it's automatically trash. :roll:

Also if you want people to actually agree with you, passive aggressive comments won't help you.

[nevessa]

that's so far off topic, nelly.
i'm talking about specific instances in a specific game that are awkward to read as a girl gamer. you don't get it, fine.
how would you be hurt by having all of the roles described as gender neutral? no one has really given any reason not to, other than "well i don't see the point." like, good for you? then it won't bother you if someone corrects them.

just because they do things in a ridiculous way in spanish doesn't mean we should let the game be ridiculous and call girls "he."

[Nellyfox]

It's not off-topic, it's a comparison, and a counter to your last statement that we "know better".

But listen, I don't care. If it gets changed, then cool. If it doesn't, then cool. I don't know how long it'll take the devs to go in and change this, but if for whatever reason it takes quite a while I'd rather have that time be spent on something else. This is minor and not very important, and therefore shouldn't be top priority by any means.

[Yzaias]

that's so far off topic, nelly.
i'm talking about specific instances in a specific game that are awkward to read as a girl gamer. you don't get it, fine.
how would you be hurt by having all of the roles described as gender neutral? no one has really given any reason not to, other than "well i don't see the point." like, good for you? then it won't bother you if someone corrects them.

just because they do things in a ridiculous way in spanish doesn't mean we should let the game be ridiculous and call girls "he."

Really? I'm a guy, and I still end up being a beautiful woman skilled in distraction. Stuff happens.

[nevessa]

that's so far off topic, nelly.
i'm talking about specific instances in a specific game that are awkward to read as a girl gamer. you don't get it, fine.
how would you be hurt by having all of the roles described as gender neutral? no one has really given any reason not to, other than "well i don't see the point." like, good for you? then it won't bother you if someone corrects them.

just because they do things in a ridiculous way in spanish doesn't mean we should let the game be ridiculous and call girls "he."

Really? I'm a guy, and I still end up being a beautiful woman skilled in distraction. Stuff happens.

yeah! well that's part of it, too! why can't men be beautiful and skilled in distraction? >:3

[Yzaias]

that's so far off topic, nelly.
i'm talking about specific instances in a specific game that are awkward to read as a girl gamer. you don't get it, fine.
how would you be hurt by having all of the roles described as gender neutral? no one has really given any reason not to, other than "well i don't see the point." like, good for you? then it won't bother you if someone corrects them.

just because they do things in a ridiculous way in spanish doesn't mean we should let the game be ridiculous and call girls "he."

Really? I'm a guy, and I still end up being a beautiful woman skilled in distraction. Stuff happens.

yeah! well that's part of it, too! why can't men be beautiful and skilled in distraction? >:3

Take the time period into consideration. It wouldn't end well for that guy.

[nevessa]

OK guys but we are playing a game... in 2015... :///

the default gender pronoun really should be neutral, it's the most fair for everyone and the most inclusive

and i'm sure there have always been plenty of male escorts throughout history lol it's natural

[Nellyfox]

It is 2015 and we are still gendering words. :^)

Yes, this is a game, that's why it's not a big deal to plenty of us as it is to you.

[Arckas]

Let say your using the Mary Warren skin.
Then the game say that "He was stabbed by a serial killer".

That really doesn't seem right, does it? Your playing a female avatar, then the game calls she a he.

It isn't a matter of what your gender pronoun is, which is to be respected, but the character you play as.


If were using the 2015 argument, allow me to tell a story. The other day while in class, I had to describe my classmate which who is female. The entire class, including myself, laughed as I was only using gender neutral pronouns such as they or them, despite them being female.

[VoidRuler]

The roles themselves have stories behind them and it's sort-of like "characters".

You don't see people complaining about playing as Sonic the Hedgehog and using he/his pronouns for instance in a Sonic-series game, because that's the main character.
Each role in this game has a backstory and all of them plan to have skins/visuals that match with them as well, they're like separate characters.

Roles have gender-specific pronouns to them because the character/roles themselves are a specific gender.

I don't see why this is such a big problem, and it takes away time that could've been dealt with in other ways for the game, instead of wasting time correcting all the gendered language on the roles.

[nevessa]

it would honestly not take that much time to clean up the descriptions which aren't gender neutral already, because i've observed that some of them already are

where's the logic in not doing that to all of them?

and no, the role is assigned to MY character. my character is female, not male. it makes no sense to not just change them all to be neutral. they are not analogous to sonic!