Lost Spirit and Ghost

Old Role Ideas

What of the roles needs more tweaking

Nothing (Ghost)
59
22%
Nothing (Lost Spirit)
61
23%
Alignment (Ghost) -> comment
16
6%
Alignment (Lost Spirit) -> comment
13
5%
Abilites/Attributes (Ghost) -> comment
26
10%
Abilites/Attributes (Lost Spirit) -> comment
21
8%
Goal (Ghost) -> comment
14
5%
Goal (Lost Spirit) -> comment
16
6%
Investigation results (Ghost) -> comment
24
9%
Investigation results (Lost Spirit) -> comment
17
6%
 
Total votes : 267

Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:34 am

Lost Spirit
Role name: Lost Spirit

Alignment: Neutral(Benign)

Summary: A lone spirit who looks for their death each night

Abilities: Seek for a killer at night

Attributes: Spoiler: - May not keep a last will. (or it won't be shown when it successfully died)
- Upon death its killer cannot die until the next night is over (immune for the night the Spirit dies and the one after)
- Vigilante, Veteran, Jailor, Serial Killer, Werewolf, Godfather and Mafioso can lift your curse
- Witches can deny your victory


Goal: Find someone who can lift your curse, before you are killed.

Wins with: The Mafia, the Town, Serial Killers, Arsonists, the Werewolf, Survivors, Vampires and Witches after fulfilling the goal

Special attributes: Spoiler: - Discussable: Unique (I deemed it as unique based of the strengh of full immunity)
- Cannot be healed by a Doctor, nor protected by a Bodyguard.
- roleblock immunity
- Ignite immunity
- bite immunity?


Special messages: Spoiler: - When successfully dying at night: "You found someone who could lift your curse."
- Announcement of death (when successfully died): "They passed on wearing a smile."
- When the Lost Spirit visits a killer: "A strange power has forced your hand."
- When being witched: "A witch has decided to sent you to hell! You have died"
- Upon visiting a Witch or their target: "You hear a spell being spoken, there is a Witch. You quickly left the house behind"
- Arsonist igniting a Lost Spirit: "A fire startled you firstly, but it was harmless."
- Doctor trying to heal a dying Spirit: "Your target faded before you could reach it."
- Bodyguard visiting a dying Spirit: "Your target embraced their death before you could react."


Additional info: Spoiler: - A Vigilante will shoot without losing ammo
- The Veteran doesn't lose an alert when killing it
- The Jailor's instruments kill the Spirit without wasting them.

- Killing the Lost Spirit will cost a charge (except for Veteran)
- Town-Killing roles only slay the spirit when they are using their nightability
- Werewolf kills the Spirit regardless of the state of the moon
- Arsonist is unable to kill the ghost.
- The Spirits killer is not announced, when it succeeded.
- If the Lost Spirit was attacked while they found a killer, it lost.
- These roles are able to lift the Spirits curse: Vigilante, Veteran, Jailor, Serial Killer, Werewolf, Godfather, Mafioso
- A witch is able to kill the Lost Spirit with bewitching it.


Investigationresults: Spoiler: Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious!
Suggestion of VoidRuler: Your target is a Lost Spirit. <-- Open for discusison

Investigator: Your targets home smells like death. They could be a Medium, Janitor, Retributionist or Lost Spirit.
Orange-results: Your target is a loner. They must be a Retributionist, Vampire Hunter, Lost Spirit, or Witch.
(I am open for other suggestions regarding the Investigators results, but prefer to use existing ones which lead to only two different roles)

Consigliere: Your target longs for their death.They must be a lost Spirit!

Story: Spoiler: A bodyguard’s dread is seeing the one they oathed to protect dying without being able to prevent it. The protector gazed in the eyes of the witch he dailed to defend, seeing them sparkling with fury. She whispered a last curse, turning the protector into a restless ghost. Silently it lived forever in this town unsuccessfully searching for redemption, but nobody noticed something strange regarding the Spirit apart from the desire to die. Nobody understood it’s pain of desperately waiting for the death’s embrace, while being unable to archieve it. The spirit seeks every night a way for finally leaving the world of the living offering a day lasting protection for it’s killer. It was that desperate, that it didn’t care who will end it’s pain…

Should I create a special interaction with Witches?

Archievments
Spoiler: Finally dead: Win as Lost Spirit once.
Suicider: Win five times as Lost Spirit.
Smiling: Win ten times as Lost Spirit.
Deaths embrace: Win twenty-five times as Lost Spirit.
I am upset: Visit a Witch
Grateful?: Visit the one decided to kill you at the same night.
I was so close: Being killed at night when finding a killer.
I am immune anyway: Cast protection on a night immune. (Vet and Werewolf would count as well)
Success: The protected person was successfully protected.
Who did it?: Have your target be attacked.
Lucky guess: Find your rest in night 1.


Changelog:
Spoiler: - deleted the extra quotes for immunity,
- removed Dayimmunity,
- Lost Spirit doesn't win when attacked while finding a killer anymore,
- Lost Spirit doesn't win when jailed
- All additional will be bolded
- Changed the alignment to Neutral:Benign
- Added my thoughts why I deemed the Spirit as unique, bit it is discussable now
- a Town Killing loses one of their charges killing the Lost Spirit
- The Lost Spirit can only win visting a Town Kiling role, if they use their night ability
- Removed the "cannot win when killed the same time it finds death!" attribute
- Changed deathannouncement
- moved some attributes around and added others.


Currently unsure: Is the interaction with Witches too hard for the Lost Spirit? Should I remove the death by SK/Werewolf/Mafia targetting the Spirit makes it lose when it has found a killer?

Ghost
Role Name: Ghost

Role Alignment: Town(Protective)

Summary: You are a guarding spirit which has the desire to protect the town unnoticed from harm.

Abilities:
- The Ghost may visit someone each night, putting them to sleep (--> roleblock) and it scare away every visitor with malicious intentions (killing, dousing).
- Cannot visit the same target twice in a row

Attributes:
Spoiler: - Ignores roleblock-immunity.
- Is immune to roleblocks.
- Immune to witches.
- Has nightimmunity until attacked once directly [Open: Swap to can scare own visitors once]
- Can only visit others 4 times, has one selfvisit


Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer

Wins with: The town, Survivors. Must kill the Mafia, the Arsonists, the Serial Killers, the Werewolf and the Vampires you may spare anyone else)

Special Attributes:
Spoiler: -The Werewolf receives the ghosts scent and will kill it in the next encounter. (Scent trace is only on fullmoon, killing may happen on odd nights as well (only ghost dies then))
- Sleeping Werewolf or Serial Killer won't attack the Ghost when being roleblocked by it.
- Investigative roles (Sheriff, Investivator and Consigliere) see their target sleeping which causes them to leave without receiving information.
- Limited uses of visits (4/1 [4 other visits/ one self visit])
- is Unique


Additional Information:
Spoiler: - Jailor cannot execute when the Ghost is visiting them, or the one they jailed. The Jailor is also unable to execute if they have jailed the Ghost.
- Being jailed does not reduce the number of visits, but is still noted as one.
- Jailor won't notice if the Ghost has protected them from the Serial Killer or Werewolf they have jailed.
- Lookouts won't see the killing roles visit, when the Ghost protected their target
- Spys don't see the visit of the Mafioso or Godfather when the Ghosts target is visited


2nd interaction with the Werewolf:
Spoiler: The Werewolf smells the Ghosts presence and kills it, after it has scared every other killing role away. The sleeping target survives the night, but every non-harmful visitor will be killed by the Wolf. If the Ghost decides to visit the Werewolf, the Wolf chases the Ghost to it's home and mauls every visitor of the Ghost instead.
NOTE: This only happens if the Ghost meets the Werewolf again and not automatically.


Investigationresults:
Spoiler: Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious!

Invest: Your target is not afraid to get their hands dirty. They could be the Bodyguard, Ghost, Godfather, or Arsonist.
Invest2: Your target is skilled at disrupting others. They could be an Escort, Transporter, Ghost, or Consort.
[After putting more thought into that, this group does not appear as fitting as I thought it would be. Are there other suggestions?]
Orange-results: Your target may not be what they seem. They must be a Disguiser, Bodyguard, Ghost, or Werewolf.

Consig: Death did not stop your target from living. They must be a Ghost

(I am unsure about changing the results when the ghost vists:)
Invest/Consig (tagretting sleeping person): Something at this house is strange. You decide to return then in an other night.

Sheriff (tagetting sleeping person): Interrogating an asleep person is no use. You decide to return home.


Messages:
Spoiler: - Successfully scaring someone away: "You have successfully frightened a visitor."
- Meeting a Werewolf: "You surprised the Werewolf with your presence, but now thay have your scent. You won't be save the next time you meet them again."
- Meeting the Werewwolf again (visitor): "The Werewolf has detected your presence and their claws was the last thing you saw. You died."
- Meeting the Werewolf again (target): "You visited the Werewolf and they chased you to your home, before their claws ended your life."

- Being scared: "A frightening grimace appeared in front of you. Scared you turned tail and fled home."
- Having slept: "Strangely you felt asleep early last night, forgetting that you had work to do." [If ability stays for night]
- When being visited: "Someone occupied your night, you were roleblocked."
- Being put to sleep: "You feel strangely sleepy, causing you to fall asleep." [If ability becomes useable at day]
- Jailor protected from prisoner: "The Serial Killer/Werewolf you jailed fell asleep, before they could've killed you."
- Visiting a Serial Killer: "Your target woke up prematurely and stabbed you."
- Killing a Ghost: "After a good rest you decided to kill the Ghost."


Story: Spoiler: Once there was a well known Bodyguard. One day he was unable to protect the one he oathed to defend with his life, causing him neverending guilt. Even after his death, his spirit couldn’t rest and strives through the town, attempting to redeem himself, he visits the Mayor. The Mayor must not know his protectors presence and should not leave the deceased Bodyguards sight, so he was put to sleep. The Spirit watches the Mayors visitors, as one draws a knife and stealthly entered the house. The visitor was greeted by a frightening face upon his entrance and fled. Happy about the success the Ghost left the Mayors house at dawn.

Archievments
Spoiler: Bouncer: win as Ghost.
Protector: win five times as Ghost.
Destiny: win ten times as Ghost.
Guardian: win twenty-five times as Ghost.
Spooky: Scare away a visitor.
UhOh: being traced by a Werewolf.
I trusted you: Being killed the Werewolf you attempted to protect.
Just as the lore: Protect the Mayor successfully from harm.
Don't you dare: Successfully protect the Jailor from being killed by their prisoner.
Tired: Win without using your nightability.
Wrong door: successfully protect someone you did not intend to.


Every change I have done to this role after receiving its review privately is bolded!
EDIT: 6. November: Decided on an Orange-invest result for the Ghost, thanks to lucas.
Update: Changed Consig-Result, decided to remove the Werewolf messages (would give the Ghost too much insight)

Edit 31. May: Swapped Attributes and Abilities, added the long thougth added restriction of not being able to protect the same target twice in a row.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to balance my roles as good as I can, so please give me feedback or ask me questions, so I know what I might have missed or to clear up unclear information.
Does anyone of you would like to see one of these roles tested or even added to the game?
Last edited by Jerme on Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:48 am, edited 41 times in total.
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Re: Role suggestion: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby NDM » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:01 am

Put it with the loners so no instant find for invest
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Re: Role suggestion: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:27 am

You are right, with the current results it is way too easy to find the Lost Spirit, but I will give the invest the Medium, Janitor and Lost Spirit result, I think this would firstly fit better and secondly resulting in four different roles is too much, I think.

Thank you for your feedback.
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Re: Role suggestion: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:27 am

Added a couple of appearing messages to the Lost Spirit and updated the small story.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost (both Neutral:Protective)

Postby VoidRuler » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:50 pm

Seems sort-of overpowered with the Ghost role -- the fact it's immune before attacked, and that there's no limit to how many times it can put someone to sleep.

I don't think you added this or if it was obvious, but the asleep target cannot perform their role while asleep, correct? I do like the idea of trading a player's abilities for protection, but with the immunity and no limit on how many times they can put someone to sleep, or no limit on if they can keep targetting the same person or not, this basically becomes a somewhat-immune Bodyguard that can protect infinitely.

I think in order to make this more balanced, that you make Ghosts only able to put someone to sleep only a limited number of times (ex.: anywhere from two to four times per game).
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost (both Neutral:Protective)

Postby Jerme » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:28 am

@Voidruler: The sleep is a roleblock, yes. I think have written it down somewhere: "Sleeping Werewolf or Serial Killer won't attack the Ghost when being roleblocked by it." This should implement that the targets are roleblocked, but I will add this. I am still deciding if this ability should be used for night or day. Any sughgestions?

I did not reduce the number of protective visits because of it saves the Killing-role for being seen by Lookouts or being mauled by the Werewolf when they meet the Ghost again. The protected person won't receive any notification (roleblocked, transported, witched, Blackmailed, douse/killing attempts) except for sleeping.
The Ghost is similar to be a neutral Jailor, with the exception that it cannot kill, is unable to speak with the one they visit, the visited one does not receive messages what would have happened to them and any Lookout does not see killing-roles visiting the target.

I could change the one time night immunity to can stay home once to scare malicious visitors, do you think this would fit, or should I still reduce the amount of visiting (someone else) to four times?

EDIT: Updated main post and added immunity to roleblock/witching and ignoring roleblock to Ghosts abilities. Added archievments for both roles. The Ghosts interaction has now quotes.
Last edited by Jerme on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost (both Neutral:Protective)

Postby Jerme » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:41 am

@ImAnTroll: I have read your roleideas after I made that suggestion, but before you made that post (I have commented on your list btw). The Ghost is neither able to kill, nor does it have a special interaction with witches, nor is its life bound to an other person.
I have added the Werewolf interaction in order for the Ghost to not be able to protect the Wolf on oddnights for eternity.
The Ghost is rather different, since only the killing roles visting will flee while every other role will perform their role, regardless of their intentions. If the target is in jail or the Jailor themself, both will sleep, noone will die (even if the jailed is Serial Killer), Jailor don't get the message that they have jailed a Serial Killer.

The Sheriff doesn't get results since he need to talk to the person and it is difficult to get answers from someone sleeping and Investigator andConsigliere are too distracted by the Ghosts presence that they are unable to discover true facts about their targets role.

The only similarity our roles have is that both can roleblock visitors and the one they visit, but the difference of this ability is, that the Ghost only roleblocks the killing roles and the target, while your golem roleblocks everyone. In addition: The Lookout won't notice the fleeing killers, but only those who performed their role.

EDIT1: Added addtional Lookout/Spy info for the Ghost on main post.
EDIT2: Should the Lost Spirit have a roleblock immunity?
EDIT3: I am not happy with the current investigation result for the Ghost anymore, are there other suggestions?
EDIT4: I added a poll regarding which sections I should tweak.
Last edited by Jerme on Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost (both Neutral:Protective)

Postby Jerme » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:56 am

There is a specific question, which is currently in my mind: Should I change the Ghosts alignment from Neutral:Protective to Town:Protective and/or give it 3-4 charges of their ability (but may target the same person in a row)?

Do you guys have an opinion or more feedback to give?
Last edited by Jerme on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost (both Neutral:Protective)

Postby cypothingy » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:46 pm

Their reviews should be done by Friday
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost (both Neutral:Protective)

Postby Jerme » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:09 am

Thank you, feedback for my roles is currently slightly rare. So I will await yours in order to adapt them if needed.

Edit (7th October, 7:10 pm UTC +1): Added rolecolors

Edit(10-11th October): Adjusted the roles after receiving feedback via reviews. (Ghost received a bad result, 30/100, so I received it privately).

Again I ask for your feedback, or ask me questions about my roles, so I know which aspects I have missed, or clear up unclear sentences.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:01 am

WHen you vote in the poll I would like to know why you have voted for that point, so I can react to your opinion with either discussion or tweaking the adressed part.
Additionally I would like to have mroe feedback!
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby oliy » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:44 pm

Lost spirit seems too easy to win with, and Ghost isn't truly worth it as town, but how would Ghost help itself as neutral benign?

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:08 pm

Oliy, do you think I should remove that the Lost Spirit wins when they visit someone who gets killed by a non-Werewolf on that night?

Well the Ghost could help themself with protecting someone to receive possible allies as Neutral Benign. It has one self protect or a one time hit immunity (not sure yet). Have you a better solution which could raise the Spirits worth as a towny (more visits, or consequences of being scared away)?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby oliy » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:12 pm

TBH, Lost Soul would be better as a Neutral BG who wants to die protecting their target.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:16 pm

This idea could work, but I do not really want to copy an existing role and change the alignment, but I keep your goal change in mind.

Thank you for your feedback.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby GREENRIPPER » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:59 am

Ghost is greatest for me.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Bajantaro » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:33 pm

Lost Spirit - Finding the Killer yourself is much more effective than trying to steal the kill from someone else. seems town sided when you look at it like that, and pretty easy to win if it does side with town.

Ghost - Pretty cool, similar to FM's Marshal. and trust me, it only makes sense as a Town Protective.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:58 am

Thanks you for the feedback. I will fix the Ghosts alignment to Town:Protective
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby lucas8411 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:33 am

1: I really like the Lost Spirit role. I can't think of a negetive thing of this role.
2: For Ghost I think this is a better Orange result: Your target may not be what they seem. They must be a Disguiser, Bodyguard, Werewolf or Ghost.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:47 am

lucas8411 wrote:1: I really like the Lost Spirit role. I can't think of a negetive thing of this role.
2: For Ghost I think this is a better Orange result: Your target may not be what they seem. They must be a Disguiser, Bodyguard, Werewolf or Ghost.


To 1: Thank you. Do you think this role should stay unique or should the possibility be there of having more Lost Spirits?
To 2: I was undecided between "avoids others" and "Not what they seem", thank you for helping.
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Jerme
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby lucas8411 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Jerme wrote:
lucas8411 wrote:1: I really like the Lost Spirit role. I can't think of a negetive thing of this role.
2: For Ghost I think this is a better Orange result: Your target may not be what they seem. They must be a Disguiser, Bodyguard, Werewolf or Ghost.


To 1: Thank you. Do you think this role should stay unique or should the possibility be there of having more Lost Spirits?
To 2: I was undecided between "avoids others" and "Not what they seem", thank you for helping.


1: I think this is not unique, I find it kinda UP when I look at the cons. Btw I wanna know if the Lost Spirit don't succeed his goal, but there is still a vig and a witch left. It will automaticly lose right.
2: You welcome :D
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:43 pm

If there is a Vig and a Witch left together with the Spirit, then the game is not over, since the Witch can let the Vig selfkill, while the Spirit visits the Vig, but if the Vig shoots the Spirit while it finds the vig, then the Spirit loses.
It was seen as too strong before I removed that this role could win when being killed while finding a killer.
Visit my role suggestions and give me feedback: http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=28949

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby lucas8411 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:01 pm

Jerme wrote:If there is a Vig and a Witch left together with the Spirit, then the game is not over, since the Witch can let the Vig selfkill, while the Spirit visits the Vig, but if the Vig shoots the Spirit while it finds the vig, then the Spirit loses.

1: Oke thanks for awnser it
It was seen as too strong before I removed that this role could win when being killed while finding a killer

2: Oke seems reasonble
IF YOU'RE READING THIS, I WANT TO SAY THAT I LEFT THE FORUMS.

Here is my last (goodbye) post in case you want to read it.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:07 am

Update: The Lost Spirit is not unique anymore and the Ghost has received a new archievment.
Visit my role suggestions and give me feedback: http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=28949

I tend to write small stories into my will and dislike Forgers and Janitors for removing them.

If you see a Grim Reaper called 'Zoroark', know that you might have encountered me.

Visit the Testing Grounds
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby LadyAnnabelle » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:57 am

I like the ghost Role /SpectralSupport
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