Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

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Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby SilverCruz » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:36 pm

"Quitbot", in this case, meaning a bot that takes over for a player who has quit the game before dying. As I always say, trying to punish people for leaving games makes for a bad atmosphere, and the real solution is to mitigate the effect of them quitting in the first place. The Mafia, moreso than any other faction, needs Quitbots the most, so let's start with them.

General Behaviour
- Living Mafia quits are no longer announced to non-Mafia players, and Mafia roles no longer commit suicide after leaving.
- Quitbots will report what happened to them the previous night during night chat if they were roleblocked, controlled by a Witch, attacked and healed, or similar unless jailed (they can't tell the difference between really getting attacked and being hypnotized, but since they'll report both that they were attacked and transported or the Hyponotist will know they were Witched if that's how that works it's possible to make an educated guess). They will report what happened the last night they were not jailed if they end up jailed and not executed for whatever reason.
- Quitbots will not commit suicide even if all other members of the Mafia are dead and have quit, though they'll stop bothering to say anything in night chat if there are no living player Mafia left.
- Quitbots do not speak while dead, jailed, or during the day.
- Quitbots do not leave Last Wills, and if a Last Will was written, will automatically erase it.
- Quitbots which can be controlled by remaining players will rattle off a canned statement explaining their controls (usually involving a role specific word and a number, like "check 9" for Consigliere to investigate Player 9 or "disguise 3 and 4" for Disguiser to disguise Player 3 as Player 4) the first night after they replace a player and are not jailed.
- If the remaining living Mafia players all vote against one target during the day, the Quitbot will also vote for that target. It will vote Guilty by default unless one of the same Mafia members say "inno" or "innocent" in the chat.

Example of making suggestions for Quitbots
- Lydia Dustin (1), the Godfather, is executed by the Jailor.
- Quitty McGee (12), the Mafioso-turned-Godfather, quits.
- Quitty McGee (12) is not jailed, so the quitbot randomly decides to attack William Phips (3).
- Thomas Danforth (6), the Consigliere, says "kill 9", and so the quitbot decides to attack William Hobbs (9) instead.
- Thomas Danforth or the other Mafia, if there is one, could alternately say "don't kill", and Quitty McGee would decide to not attack anyone. This is useful if it is in the Mafia's best interest to fake a deadlock for whatever reason.
This example is reasonably applicable to the other roles as well, with contexts changed.

Godfather/Mafioso
- If a player Godfather/Mafioso is alive and not jailed, the Quitbot will echo their choice, idling if they do not choose a target. If there is no player Godfather/Mafioso (whether because they died or both left at once) or they are jailed, then the Quitbot will pick a random target to attack if not given a suggestion. Both the Godfather and Mafioso Quitbots will take suggestions with the "kill <number>" syntax, but can also be directed separately by using "godfather kill <number>" and "mafioso kill <number>" instead if that seems like a good idea at the time.

Disguiser
- The Quitbot will wait for most of the night for a suggestion before acting, then if no suggestion is given, disguise a member of the Mafia who has decided to take an action as a random target. Its priority list, highest to lowest, is Forger, Framer, Hypnotist, Consort, Consigliere, Blackmailer, Disguiser, Ambusher, Godfather, Mafioso, then Janitor.

Forger
- The Quitbot will not act without being given a suggestion due to the role's limited actions unless there are no living player Mafia left, in which case it will just pick the same target as the Godfather/Mafioso and choose a random town-role forgery (excluding Coven-specific roles outside of the Coven game mode). If there is also a Janitor Quitbot which can still clean in this situation, then it will idle and let the Janitor Quitbot act instead.

Framer
- The Quitbot will pick a random target to frame if not given a suggestion.

Hypnotist
- The Quitbot will not act without being given a suggestion due to the many possible outcomes available. If there are no living player Mafia left, it will pick a random target and pick among a small pool of messages.

Janitor
- The Quitbot will not act without being given a suggestion due to the role's limited actions unless there are no living player Mafia left, in which case it will just pick the same target as the Godfather/Mafioso. (While it is better to clean a quitter than the Mafia target if possible, that doesn't seem like something a Quitbot should know about without having it suggested)

Ambusher
- The Quitbot will pick a random target to ambush at if not given a suggestion.

Blackmailer
- The Quitbot will pick a random target to blackmail, and repeatedly blackmail that target until they die, leave, cannot be blackmailed (whether by the Quitbot being roleblocked or the target being jailed) or a suggestion to blackmail somebody else is given. If their streak is broken, they will pick a random target again the next available night.

Consigliere
- At the start of the first night after its player has quit, the Quitbot will state the investigation results the player had received, if any, then will pick a target at random excluding anyone it thinks it or the player before it has already successfully investigated ("it thinks" meaning that it will take a successful visit at face value even if the target was transported as long as it didn't find a Mafia role). At the start of the next night, it will state the result of its investigation and pick another random target. If there are no targets left that it does not think it has already investigated, it will state as much and idle but can still be suggested to double-check someone. If there are no living player Mafia left, it will idle since Quitbots are blind to role priority when left alone.

Consort
- The Quitbot will pick a random target to distract if not given a suggestion.

Now I know this is wordy, and it's probably a pretty rough concept, but think of this as more a framework to start a discussion than a complete idea. Some things could be talked over or adjusted, such as Quitbot Janitors not knowing that cleaning quitters is a good play, their intentional ignorance of role priority and what, if any exceptions to that rule should be implemented, or whether or not it should be announced that the player they took over for was at some point replaced by a Quitbot if they're lynched or killed for whatever other reason, maybe by writing in their Will the day or night the player quit instead of having a completely blank Will.

So, now it's someone else's turn to talk.

---

Also, since I got an Edited tag from correcting a couple slip-ups after someone else posted, I'll fold other points from responses into this post too.

Witch Interactions - The Witch will be notified of a Mafia member quitting if they have controlled that Mafia member previously. So if the Witch controls Quitty McGee on Night 1 and he quits on Day 2, the Witch will be notified. If instead the Witch first controls Quitty McGee after he quits (I.E. Quitty McGee instead quits on Day 1 and is controlled on Night 1), the Witch will receive an extra message to the tune of "You noticed that your target seemed hollow, in some way...", then they will see the disconnect icon next to Quitty McGee's name for the rest of the round.
Last edited by SilverCruz on Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby Dragnier » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:20 pm

First of all, I like the concept and where it is going.

One first flaw that comes to my mind is that the human input is required for actions/conversations during the day, specially if you try to have some targets lynched. Example, if the executioner is trying to have his target lynched and any townie tries to defend the target, usually mafia can stir some chaos or lies to have him lynched. In this case, that human input is not possible as quitbots might vote, but they don't speak.

What will happen with the voting? All quitbots will vote in the same direction? This can be hard to program as the decision of voting guilty or inno can be highly situational. (and similar voting patterns while vfr could provide clues to easily identify the mafia quitbots)

Another point that comes to my mind is the interaction with witches. A witch can try to contact a mafia member that she has previously witched, only to find an uncooperative quitbot. The quitbot will reveal mafia members to the witch?

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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby SilverCruz » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:46 pm

As I said, I figured that a place to start for voting was that the Quitbots will vote somebody up if every remaining player Mafia votes them up first, then default to voting guilty unless one of those player Mafias say "innocent" or "inno", probably with a broad enough net so that a Mafia can say something like "yeah, innocent" or "i agree. innocent" so they can guise their Quitbot commands as just agreeing with somebody. Likewise, to make it not suspicious that Thomas Danforth said "innocent" and then Quitty McGee instantly changed their vote, have the quitbots only vote in the last couple of seconds. That's still suspicious if you know to look out for it, I grant you, but it's less likely to instantly incriminate one person. I would consider day voting to be the hardest part for what Quitbots are supposed to be doing and what they need to be able to do. Not saying anything in jail is suicidal, but it's still an improvement over a suicide-on-quit because it'll at least force the Jailor to waste a night and and an execution on the Quitbot instead of the town getting that Mafia member knocked out for free.

As for the Witch, first solution that springs to mind is to inform them if a Mafia member they have previously controlled quits. So if the Witch controls Quitty McGee on Night 1 and he quits on Day 2, then they'll be informed the same as the actual Mafia members (considering there are already persistent flags for things like frames and dousings, I can't see this being hard to implement). If, on the other hand, Quitty McGee quits on Day 1 and the Witch controls him on Night 1, they'll get an extra message that says something like "You noticed that your target seemed hollow, in some way..." and the Witch will see the disconnect icon next to Quitty McGee's name for the rest of the round.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby kyuss420 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:52 pm

nah, classic users didnt pay much, they should implement Coven quitbots first....now if they only had the cash to pay someone to program 6 quitbots (for the 6 coven roles), that could make masters ELO without losing a match....
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby Midio7 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:35 pm

I feel like this can be abused. What if the town knows that someone is a quit bot because they never talk, and to make sure that someone else is not Mafia, they ask the sus guy to vote a player to see if that silent guy will vote the same. To be more sure, they ask the sus guy to say Innocent in the chat to see what the silent guy votes
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby kyuss420 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:49 pm

Midio7 wrote:I feel like this can be abused. What if the town knows that someone is a quit bot because they never talk, and to make sure that someone else is not Mafia, they ask the sus guy to vote a player to see if that silent guy will vote the same. To be more sure, they ask the sus guy to say Innocent in the chat to see what the silent guy votes


Dont worry, Im sure BMG will get Bill Gates or Elon Musk to design them a super AI for ToS quitbots
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby SilverCruz » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:01 pm

Midio7 wrote:I feel like this can be abused. What if the town knows that someone is a quit bot because they never talk, and to make sure that someone else is not Mafia, they ask the sus guy to vote a player to see if that silent guy will vote the same. To be more sure, they ask the sus guy to say Innocent in the chat to see what the silent guy votes


Well, let's take that at face value. Is it worse than just instantly losing manpower and night abilities? The point here isn't to do it perfectly from step one, it's to make things better, and make them better from there in the future.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby Quartzified » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:32 am

SilverCruz wrote:
Midio7 wrote:I feel like this can be abused. What if the town knows that someone is a quit bot because they never talk, and to make sure that someone else is not Mafia, they ask the sus guy to vote a player to see if that silent guy will vote the same. To be more sure, they ask the sus guy to say Innocent in the chat to see what the silent guy votes


Well, let's take that at face value. Is it worse than just instantly losing manpower and night abilities? The point here isn't to do it perfectly from step one, it's to make things better, and make them better from there in the future.

Well for one, implementing this would require a shit ton of coding. I highly doubt that the devs would want to spend that much time designing something that probably wouldn't even end up being that beneficial.

And yes, there are actually cases where having a quitbot is worse than being one man down. You mentioned that the quitbot would automatically vote someone if all of the other mafia votes that person. If that is the case, town can just use the (very obvious) quitbot's voting patterns to deduce who the mafia are. If the quitbot votes innocent, then you know that someone who said "inno" or "innocent" during the judgement phase is mafia.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby SilverCruz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:40 pm

Okay we'll take that, then broach this question. is it acceptable for the Mafia to have direct control over the Quitbots even though that bleeds into the territory of one or more players playing as one or more roles? For example, if we scratch the day voting tendencies stated completely and just let William Hobbs (6) directly make Quitty McGee (4) cast a vote against Cotton Mathers (11) by typing into the chat "/qb 4 vote 11" then "/qb 4 vote guilty" or "/qb 4 vote innocent", which has no visible feedback aside from Quitty McGee just voting. No AI involved, Hobbs just flat out gets an extra vote because he lost an ally to a quit.

Is that acceptable? If it is, then just do it instead. If it's not, then either leave day-voting out for the first phase, try to mull up something better to do, or consider if it would be as bad in the context of town Quitbots which can be lead around similarly being present too, such as if a Town Quitbot will vote against someone at the point that their vote would make a difference, then default to Guilty but go Innocent if it sees enough other plays call "inno" or "innocent" in the chat, the amount again being relative to how many players are left.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby Quartzified » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:31 pm

SilverCruz wrote:Okay we'll take that, then broach this question. is it acceptable for the Mafia to have direct control over the Quitbots even though that bleeds into the territory of one or more players playing as one or more roles? For example, if we scratch the day voting tendencies stated completely and just let William Hobbs (6) directly make Quitty McGee (4) cast a vote against Cotton Mathers (11) by typing into the chat "/qb 4 vote 11" then "/qb 4 vote guilty" or "/qb 4 vote innocent", which has no visible feedback aside from Quitty McGee just voting. No AI involved, Hobbs just flat out gets an extra vote because he lost an ally to a quit.

Is that acceptable? If it is, then just do it instead. If it's not, then either leave day-voting out for the first phase, try to mull up something better to do, or consider if it would be as bad in the context of town Quitbots which can be lead around similarly being present too, such as if a Town Quitbot will vote against someone at the point that their vote would make a difference, then default to Guilty but go Innocent if it sees enough other plays call "inno" or "innocent" in the chat, the amount again being relative to how many players are left.

Just implement a reconnection system so that people who DC can reconnect. That way, if someone DCs, they can just reconnect and you get to play with an actual human being again instead of a bot.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby EqsyLootz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:25 pm

Quartzified wrote:
SilverCruz wrote:Okay we'll take that, then broach this question. is it acceptable for the Mafia to have direct control over the Quitbots even though that bleeds into the territory of one or more players playing as one or more roles? For example, if we scratch the day voting tendencies stated completely and just let William Hobbs (6) directly make Quitty McGee (4) cast a vote against Cotton Mathers (11) by typing into the chat "/qb 4 vote 11" then "/qb 4 vote guilty" or "/qb 4 vote innocent", which has no visible feedback aside from Quitty McGee just voting. No AI involved, Hobbs just flat out gets an extra vote because he lost an ally to a quit.

Is that acceptable? If it is, then just do it instead. If it's not, then either leave day-voting out for the first phase, try to mull up something better to do, or consider if it would be as bad in the context of town Quitbots which can be lead around similarly being present too, such as if a Town Quitbot will vote against someone at the point that their vote would make a difference, then default to Guilty but go Innocent if it sees enough other plays call "inno" or "innocent" in the chat, the amount again being relative to how many players are left.

Just implement a reconnection system so that people who DC can reconnect. That way, if someone DCs, they can just reconnect and you get to play with an actual human being again instead of a bot.


A reconnection system is planned.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby dolphina » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:07 am

EqsyLootz wrote:
Quartzified wrote:
SilverCruz wrote:Okay we'll take that, then broach this question. is it acceptable for the Mafia to have direct control over the Quitbots even though that bleeds into the territory of one or more players playing as one or more roles? For example, if we scratch the day voting tendencies stated completely and just let William Hobbs (6) directly make Quitty McGee (4) cast a vote against Cotton Mathers (11) by typing into the chat "/qb 4 vote 11" then "/qb 4 vote guilty" or "/qb 4 vote innocent", which has no visible feedback aside from Quitty McGee just voting. No AI involved, Hobbs just flat out gets an extra vote because he lost an ally to a quit.

Is that acceptable? If it is, then just do it instead. If it's not, then either leave day-voting out for the first phase, try to mull up something better to do, or consider if it would be as bad in the context of town Quitbots which can be lead around similarly being present too, such as if a Town Quitbot will vote against someone at the point that their vote would make a difference, then default to Guilty but go Innocent if it sees enough other plays call "inno" or "innocent" in the chat, the amount again being relative to how many players are left.

Just implement a reconnection system so that people who DC can reconnect. That way, if someone DCs, they can just reconnect and you get to play with an actual human being again instead of a bot.


A reconnection system is planned.

yup! devs promised the good ol’ reconnect button to be joining us eventually
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:57 am

dolphina wrote:
EqsyLootz wrote:
Quartzified wrote:
SilverCruz wrote:Okay we'll take that, then broach this question. is it acceptable for the Mafia to have direct control over the Quitbots even though that bleeds into the territory of one or more players playing as one or more roles? For example, if we scratch the day voting tendencies stated completely and just let William Hobbs (6) directly make Quitty McGee (4) cast a vote against Cotton Mathers (11) by typing into the chat "/qb 4 vote 11" then "/qb 4 vote guilty" or "/qb 4 vote innocent", which has no visible feedback aside from Quitty McGee just voting. No AI involved, Hobbs just flat out gets an extra vote because he lost an ally to a quit.

Is that acceptable? If it is, then just do it instead. If it's not, then either leave day-voting out for the first phase, try to mull up something better to do, or consider if it would be as bad in the context of town Quitbots which can be lead around similarly being present too, such as if a Town Quitbot will vote against someone at the point that their vote would make a difference, then default to Guilty but go Innocent if it sees enough other plays call "inno" or "innocent" in the chat, the amount again being relative to how many players are left.

Just implement a reconnection system so that people who DC can reconnect. That way, if someone DCs, they can just reconnect and you get to play with an actual human being again instead of a bot.


A reconnection system is planned.

yup! devs promised the good ol’ reconnect button to be joining us eventually


Like they did 3 years ago?
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby EqsyLootz » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:57 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:
dolphina wrote:
EqsyLootz wrote:
Quartzified wrote:
SilverCruz wrote:Okay we'll take that, then broach this question. is it acceptable for the Mafia to have direct control over the Quitbots even though that bleeds into the territory of one or more players playing as one or more roles? For example, if we scratch the day voting tendencies stated completely and just let William Hobbs (6) directly make Quitty McGee (4) cast a vote against Cotton Mathers (11) by typing into the chat "/qb 4 vote 11" then "/qb 4 vote guilty" or "/qb 4 vote innocent", which has no visible feedback aside from Quitty McGee just voting. No AI involved, Hobbs just flat out gets an extra vote because he lost an ally to a quit.

Is that acceptable? If it is, then just do it instead. If it's not, then either leave day-voting out for the first phase, try to mull up something better to do, or consider if it would be as bad in the context of town Quitbots which can be lead around similarly being present too, such as if a Town Quitbot will vote against someone at the point that their vote would make a difference, then default to Guilty but go Innocent if it sees enough other plays call "inno" or "innocent" in the chat, the amount again being relative to how many players are left.

Just implement a reconnection system so that people who DC can reconnect. That way, if someone DCs, they can just reconnect and you get to play with an actual human being again instead of a bot.


A reconnection system is planned.

yup! devs promised the good ol’ reconnect button to be joining us eventually


Like they did 3 years ago?


They tried it and it didn't work so they're trying something else. It'll probably come when the Leaving buster comes out.
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Re: Formal post about how the game really needs quitbots.

Postby SilverCruz » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 pm

So "When it's done.", just like Duke Nukem Forever.
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I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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