Role Idea - Judge (Town Support)

[Cavespider17]

Role Name:
The Judge

Role Alignment:
Town Support

Abilities:
Pardon
- You may Pardon someone at night.
- That Player, even if Guiltied, will not be lynched the next day.

Objection
- You may object to a vote outcome, and flip the result.

Attributes:
Pardon
- You cannot Pardon yourself.
- You cannot Pardon Night 1.
- You have 3 Pardons.

Objection
- You may only object to a trial once, and must be done during the Judgement phase.
- You may object your own trial.
- Objecting reveals your name to all Evils. Town will remain oblivious to your identity.

Notifications:
The Judge:
You have Issued [Player] a Pardon.
You have 1 objection remaining.
You used your Objection ability. Now all forces that could oppose Town know your name.

The Town & Evils:
The Judge has objected to the vote count. The outcome has been flipped.

Evils:
[Player] has been revealed as the Judge.


Goal:
Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Win Conditions:
- Wins with Town
- Wins with Survivors

Must Kill:
- Mafia
- Arsonists
- Serial Killers
- Witches
- Werewolves
- Coven
- Juggernaut
- Vampires

Special Attributes:
- None.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff – Your target seems innocent.
Investigator – Your target is a Bodyguard, Godfather, Arsonist, or Judge.
Consigliere – Your target wields the gavel of justice in their hands. They must be the Judge.

Additional Information:
- The Judge is a Unique role, and cannot exist if there is a Mayor in the game.
- The Judge can be the Executioner’s target, unlike a Mayor and Jailor.
- Objecting turns innocent votes to guilty and vice-versa. Abstains are not altered.


Lore:
“What do you mean he is innocent? The lookout saw him!” the town’s Sheriff shouted at the top of his voice, waving his arms angrily as the Mafioso stepped down from the trial stand, a smile on his face knowing his Mafia friends would never convict him.

“We don’t have a chance anymore, we are outnumbered,” the Jailor sighed, kicking a pebble.

Out of the crowd a man stepped forward, a cigar in hand, a wig on his head and gavel in his hand. “I sentence you to trial, once more, and I declare you guilty of conspiracy against the town.” The Mafioso’s smile faded as he was hauled back on trial kicking and screaming.

Watching the Mafioso hang, the Consigliere scowled, taking a moment to compose himself. This man, this Judge, had killed one of his allies. The Arsonist, the Serial Killer, his Mafia kin would all want to know who he is. For that is one thing they all would be united on. This Judge could not live another day.


Any suggestions/comments welcomed. Feel free to point out typos and mistakes and I will fix them as soon as possible.

[deadlyblack]

What's the usage of this role other than forcing an additional trial? I can potentially see this being a Town Killing role, but instead of killing someone at night he can force guilty someone in the day--though he can only do this once.

[Cavespider17]

What's the usage of this role other than forcing an additional trial? I can potentially see this being a Town Killing role, but instead of killing someone at night he can force guilty someone in the day--though he can only do this once.

That's his power. He can basically reverse a decision by creating that additional trial. I don't understand how it would be classed as town killing, since there is no active killing associated with him.

An example of this in use would be:
Mafioso is voted up, but gets off the hook in a 5 - 5. The Judge can then force the Mafioso back onto the stand, changing the vote to 6 - 5 on guilty. Also he becomes "confirmed" as the judge in the eyes of the evils, giving them an opportunity to work around them and find tps and other important townies quicker. Evils have the knowledge of who the judge is once they have used their abilities. So it is a double edged sword really. It may buy you majority, but at the cost of elimating the unknown of unclaimed townies.

Does that make sense?

[deadlyblack]

What's the usage of this role other than forcing an additional trial? I can potentially see this being a Town Killing role, but instead of killing someone at night he can force guilty someone in the day--though he can only do this once.

That's his power. He can basically reverse a decision by creating that additional trial. I don't understand how it would be classed as town killing, since there is no active killing associated with him.

An example of this in use would be:
Mafioso is voted up, but gets off the hook in a 5 - 5. The Judge can then force the Mafioso back onto the stand, changing the vote to 6 - 5 on guilty. Also he becomes "confirmed" as the judge in the eyes of the evils, giving them an opportunity to work around them and find tps and other important townies quicker. Evils have the knowledge of who the judge is once they have used their abilities. So it is a double edged sword really. It may buy you majority, but at the cost of elimating the unknown of unclaimed townies.

Does that make sense?

I see.. what I had in mind was that this role could put up and guilty an individual all on his own (he counts as all votes for one time). Nice concept.

[Cavespider17]

I see.. what I had in mind was that this role could put up and guilty an individual all on his own (he counts as all votes for one time). Nice concept.

I agree with this idea, since it would make more sense for him as a role. Thank you for your input. I have edited the role idea accordingly.

[DiamondRanger8]

This is a really good idea. At first I though the Judge would just be auto confirmed by just claiming judge, but evils would likely cc it. the Judge could claim, however, before they put someone on trial, which would confirm it easily, but overall a good role.

[Cavespider17]

This is a really good idea. At first I though the Judge would just be auto confirmed by just claiming judge, but evils would likely cc it. the Judge could claim, however, before they put someone on trial, which would confirm it easily, but overall a good role.

Thank you for the comment.

I agree that if a Judge whispers a Jailor etc and then performs the act it would confirm them as the Judge - However, they would still have to have an initial trial occur before they could use their ability, since they are unable to use their forced trial as the first trial of the day.

I am still not 100% sure about that as a concept, but I think for balance it may be for the best. Preventing them from being able to win a 1v1, but potentially winning in a 1v1v1.

I would be interested to see how evils would claim Judge and how they would attempt to force-stall if they are aware of a Judge via a consigliere. Of course, I suppose the counter to this is to vote up a confirmed townie, assuming town has the numbers, then get everyone to vote innocent to enable the judge to use their forced trial - however, it does waste a trial of the day, and for example, if a Jester fake claims Judge and is put on trial via the Judge, the Jailor could get killed from the Jester's haunt, seeing as he is forced to abstain.

Would you consider that to be broken?

I appreciate everyone's opinion on this matter.

[wisdomatic]

i honestly love this?

[LupusUmbrus]

I kinda like this idea but it sounds like mayor but with one time use. Is there anything else that it could do to make it a bit more useful and not like the old Retributonist, which was a one click confirm with no use afterwords, though I liked the old one this is sorta like it and why BMG changed it to begin with from what I udnerstand.

[Cavespider17]

i honestly love this?

Thank you. I am glad you like it.

I kinda like this idea but it sounds like mayor but with one time use. Is there anything else that it could do to make it a bit more useful and not like the old Retributonist, which was a one click confirm with no use afterwords, though I liked the old one this is sorta like it and why BMG changed it to begin with from what I udnerstand.

Thank you for the comment. I see your point. Perhaps giving them the second ability to overturn a decision, changing innocents to guilties and guilties to innocents - once again this is a one time deal, and alerts evils to their presence and identity. They would be able to do this on their own trial too.

Example (3 players remain):
[Player A (Mafioso)] Voted For [Player B] (Judge)
[Player C] (Witch) Voted For [Player B](Judge)

The Judge uses his ability to over turn the vote, changing the evils' guilties to innocent, getting himself pardoned (which if he hasn't used his primary ability would then technically give him a 50/50 chance or greater of lynching the Mafioso and winning the game).

Of course this could potentially backfire, since if the Witch annd Mafioso were to vote innocent, and the Judge overturned the vote, he would change them to Guilties. He would have to decide whether or not to overturn the vote before the decision phase ends.

What do you think of that as a potential addition to the Judge to make it less "one-trick pony" and less Mayor-like? Would this make them too overpowered?

[deadlyblack]

Thank you for the comment. I see your point. Perhaps giving them the second ability to overturn a decision, changing innocents to guilties and guilties to innocents - once again this is a one time deal, and alerts evils to their presence and identity. They would be able to do this on their own trial too.

Example (3 players remain):
[Player A (Mafioso)] Voted For [Player B] (Judge)
[Player C] (Witch) Voted For [Player B](Judge)

The Judge uses his ability to over turn the vote, changing the evils' guilties to innocent, getting himself pardoned (which if he hasn't used his primary ability would then technically give him a 50/50 chance or greater of lynching the Mafioso and winning the game).

Of course this could potentially backfire, since if the Witch annd Mafioso were to vote innocent, and the Judge overturned the vote, he would change them to Guilties. He would have to decide whether or not to overturn the vote before the decision phase ends.

What do you think of that as a potential addition to the Judge to make it less "one-trick pony" and less Mayor-like? Would this make them too overpowered?

I think this works and wouldn't be too overpowered because it can backfire. It's similar to the Vigilante in that he suicides when killing a towny.

[Cavespider17]

I think this works and wouldn't be too overpowered because it can backfire. It's similar to the Vigilante in that he suicides when killing a towny.

Thank you for your comment.

I have updated the role suggest to match the request for more than a One-Trick-Pony status. I also fixed the colour of "Jester".

I hope it looks a little better now.

[Midio7]

I honestly love this.

[Cavespider17]

I honestly love this.

Thank you. I am glad you like it.

I have added an extra notification regarding the "Objection" which I missed the first time around. If I am missing any other potential notifications, please let me know. I think I have them all though.

[deadlyblack]

Maybe just make the abilities/attributes more clear (or just copy paste this)

Abilities:
Trial Order
- You may single handily force an individual to be put on trial.
- You may vote guilty or vote innocent on that person. During this trial, no one else may vote.*(edit made courtesy of deadlyblack)
Objection
- You may object to a vote outcome, and flip the result.*(edit made courtesy of LupusUmbrus & deadlyblack)

Attributes:
Trial Order
- You may force an additional trial in the day. This trial must be between the first and last trial of the day. Your forced trial does not count towards the three-trial maximum.
- Your forced trial cannot be the first or last trial of the day.
- You may only force a trial once. During that trial, Only you may vote. All other players are forced to abstain.

Objection
- You may object to a vote outcome. You must decide if you are going to do this during the decision stage (Before the vote outcome is announced).
- You may only object to the vote outcome once. Doing so turns innocent votes to guilties and vice-versa.

Using Trial Order or Objection reveals your name to all evils. Town will remain oblivious to your identity.

[Cavespider17]

Maybe just make the abilities/attributes more clear (or just copy paste this)

Abilities:
Trial Order
- You may single handily force an individual to be put on trial.
- You may vote guilty or vote innocent on that person. During this trial, no one else may vote.*(edit made courtesy of deadlyblack)
Objection
- You may object to a vote outcome, and flip the result.*(edit made courtesy of LupusUmbrus & deadlyblack)

Attributes:
Trial Order
- You may force an additional trial in the day. This trial must be between the first and last trial of the day. Your forced trial does not count towards the three-trial maximum.
- Your forced trial cannot be the first or last trial of the day.
- You may only force a trial once. During that trial, Only you may vote. All other players are forced to abstain.

Objection
- You may object to a vote outcome. You must decide if you are going to do this during the decision stage (Before the vote outcome is announced).
- You may only object to the vote outcome once. Doing so turns innocent votes to guilties and vice-versa.

Using Trial Order or Objection reveals your name to all evils. Town will remain oblivious to your identity.

Noted, thank you. I have split the two sections, as per your recommendation to make them easier to see, fixed some of the text to make it readable in light theme, and added an explaination on what to do with Abstainees during an Objection.

[Cavespider17]

This has gone a bit quiet - anyone got any more suggestions to add? Is it balanced? Is it unabalanced? Still making edits so suggestions appreciated.

[deadlyblack]

This has gone a bit quiet - anyone got any more suggestions to add? Is it balanced? Is it unabalanced? Still making edits so suggestions appreciated.

I think it's because it's fine. Some minor edits tho: I don't think he should be able to abstain, should just be a guilty or inno. Also, when he puts up the target, everyone else should be quiet--or unable to speak. Judge should be able to speak to the defendant with no interruptions, and the defendant should be able to plea their case.

It would be interesting to have a "Witness Stand" too, idk

[Shyrakeso]

This is by far the best new role idea I have ever heard. You have done a really good job thinking everything through, and I think this could really change up the rather stale meta that is currently going on. Hope to see this in the game at some point. Keep up the good work c:

-Moose

[OreCreeper]

This has gone a bit quiet - anyone got any more suggestions to add? Is it balanced? Is it unabalanced? Still making edits so suggestions appreciated.

I don't think the "revealing your identity to evils" thing is really that useful, the judge can just well, claim judge. And killing a judge who has already used his ability is pretty pointless unless you just want to kill someone who's guaranteed town... but even then the TPs might catch onto that idea as well. I get the attempt to balance the role, but it really doesn't do much at all.

[Cavespider17]

This has gone a bit quiet - anyone got any more suggestions to add? Is it balanced? Is it unabalanced? Still making edits so suggestions appreciated.

I don't think the "revealing your identity to evils" thing is really that useful, the judge can just well, claim judge. And killing a judge who has already used his ability is pretty pointless unless you just want to kill someone who's guaranteed town... but even then the TPs might catch onto that idea as well. I get the attempt to balance the role, but it really doesn't do much at all.

After you've used both your abilties this is true - however, if you've only used one of them it does cause issues for you, especially since town might need the other one soon - especially if powerful town is already dead Also if no TP is left you've left yourself very exposed. Also a GF could potentially go "I am the Judge! TPLO on me!" after the Judge has used their Trial ability. Even if the real Judge CCs they cause a split of TP from other TPLO callers - it can be quite devastating.

I hope that answers concerns

[OreCreeper]

This has gone a bit quiet - anyone got any more suggestions to add? Is it balanced? Is it unabalanced? Still making edits so suggestions appreciated.

I don't think the "revealing your identity to evils" thing is really that useful, the judge can just well, claim judge. And killing a judge who has already used his ability is pretty pointless unless you just want to kill someone who's guaranteed town... but even then the TPs might catch onto that idea as well. I get the attempt to balance the role, but it really doesn't do much at all.

After you've used both your abilties this is true - however, if you've only used one of them it does cause issues for you, especially since town might need the other one soon - especially if powerful town is already dead Also if no TP is left you've left yourself very exposed. Also a GF could potentially go "I am the Judge! TPLO on me!" after the Judge has used their Trial ability. Even if the real Judge CCs they cause a split of TP from other TPLO callers - it can be quite devastating.

I hope that answers concerns

Well I mean, the judge's main useful ability is the additional trial. The objection thing is pretty pointless unless town is dumb and is getting sheeped by evils, but giving a role an ability just to counter player stupidity isn't a good idea, especially considering the judge themselves could be dumb. Also, yeah a GF, or any evil in fact, could cc judge, but if they try to kill the judge, they will just get lynched the next day.

Anyway, I don't think this nerf is necessary, nor is the objection ability. Overall, it's really even that overpowered in the first place. I mean, at best it gives town one extra kill, when the jailor gives 3, and I guess it can be useful if everyone in the town is getting sheeped into lynching a townie except the judge, but that's not really much.

[Cavespider17]

Well I mean, the judge's main useful ability is the additional trial. The objection thing is pretty pointless unless town is dumb and is getting sheeped by evils, but giving a role an ability just to counter player stupidity isn't a good idea, especially considering the judge themselves could be dumb. Also, yeah a GF, or any evil in fact, could cc judge, but if they try to kill the judge, they will just get lynched the next day.

Anyway, I don't think this nerf is necessary, nor is the objection ability. Overall, it's really even that overpowered in the first place. I mean, at best it gives town one extra kill, when the jailor gives 3, and I guess it can be useful if everyone in the town is getting sheeped into lynching a townie except the judge, but that's not really much.

Objection is a pretty powerful thing in late games when evils have maj. Particularly if Judge hasnt used their trial ability - remember it has to be after the first trial before they can use it. We will see.

[OreCreeper]

Well I mean, the judge's main useful ability is the additional trial. The objection thing is pretty pointless unless town is dumb and is getting sheeped by evils, but giving a role an ability just to counter player stupidity isn't a good idea, especially considering the judge themselves could be dumb. Also, yeah a GF, or any evil in fact, could cc judge, but if they try to kill the judge, they will just get lynched the next day.

Anyway, I don't think this nerf is necessary, nor is the objection ability. Overall, it's really even that overpowered in the first place. I mean, at best it gives town one extra kill, when the jailor gives 3, and I guess it can be useful if everyone in the town is getting sheeped into lynching a townie except the judge, but that's not really much.

Objection is a pretty powerful thing in late games when evils have maj. Particularly if Judge hasnt used their trial ability - remember it has to be after the first trial before they can use it. We will see.

So essentially it functions as a support ability for the judge's trial ability?

[Cavespider17]

So essentially it functions as a support ability for the judge's trial ability?

Effectively the second abilty can be used as an assist for the first - but can also be used independently. It really depends on the individual game - consider this ---

Maf + Witch + Judge (unrevealed) remains.

Judge can act as a "Voting Veteran" so can win still in that situation. It is just a neat little thing given to them to make them a little less 1 trick pony.