cob709 wrote:witch just needs to.. not visit the arsonist..
MarsliPatates wrote:cob709 wrote:witch just needs to.. not visit the arsonist..
Sometimes it happens randomly. Let’s say that you controlled an Arsonist N1. You know who the Arsonist is, and Arsonist most likely knows who you are now since you are doused. Your roles can win together, and has a not so different goal, so they should be able to help each other out instead of being a direct threat to one another. So if Witch outs Arsonist because they don’t want to die, Witch gets outed early because dying Arsonist outed her as a Witch. If Witch doesn’t out Arsonist, now you have to control Arsonist every night so you don’t die, which is detrimental to both of your win conditions. You should be able to work together with an Arsonist. This change will still punish you for controlling an Arsonist, but you still have a chance to win with Arsonist now, since you won’t die unless Arsonist douses you again on purpose, or you choose to control him again.
TheUltimateCake wrote:Ah yes, it's Witch's fault for controlling Arsonist N1! But your argument is not that good. How is Witch supposed to know who Arsonist is without, ya know, USING IT'S ABILITY? AN ABILITY MEANT TO FIND IT HELP EVILS, NOT TO HELP EVILS KILL THEM.
Brilliand wrote:In the example in the OP, Witch needs to just not visit the Arsonist. It was a bad example.
Witch and Arsonist need some way to recover from the situation where the Arsonist doused the witch early (before they could have reasonably realized), regardless of whether that douse was active or passive.
cob709 wrote:Due to this, the Arsonist would never be able to burn the Witch, which is thematically supposed to happen.
cob709 wrote: There are consequences for all actions. The consequence of the Witch visiting the Arsonist is that they are doused. The consequence for the Arsonist visiting the Witch is that they are doused. It is inevitable.
MarsliPatates wrote:cob709 wrote: There are consequences for all actions. The consequence of the Witch visiting the Arsonist is that they are doused. The consequence for the Arsonist visiting the Witch is that they are doused. It is inevitable.
I wrote that first example at 2 am so it may be shaky, I apologize. So don’t think too much about that.
The current consequence of controlling Arsonist once makes Witch and Arsonist instant enemies. With Witch needing to hang Arsonist instantly after finding him or having to control the Arsonist every night.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a consequence to controlling an Arsonist, but the current one is so severe it stops the two of them from helping each other. This is really bad, as Witch needs an evil role to win the game and the Arsonist needs to get every neutral’s help as a solo killer. You can side with every other NK in the game, why is Arsonist your most dangerous enemy when you can win together? You should be working to take Town down, not trying to get each other lynched.
In my version the consequence is toned down, and now you can control and confirm who the Arsonist is. This still has a consequence, now you lost your Immunity. If you choose to control him again, you will get doused now.
But at least you can still win together like in the days before the update, like it was meant to.
Harryyoshi wrote:It's rare that a Witch finds evils just by controlling them.
SkorumpowanyGlut wrote:Please implement this idea along with shield not blocking vigi shot.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Brilliand wrote:Harryyoshi wrote:It's rare that a Witch finds evils just by controlling them.
It's pretty common the Witch finds Mafia roles that way.
kyuss420 wrote:They can also find them by using TIs and scum reading, and spending their nights controlling townies instead of hindering who they suspect is evil.
kyuss420 wrote:The game as a whole has problems like this, with every NK. You are never ALWAYS going to get the perfect role list to suit whichever NK spawns in ranked matches. You role Arso in a witch game? sucks to be you...
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:kyuss420 wrote:They can also find them by using TIs and scum reading, and spending their nights controlling townies instead of hindering who they suspect is evil.
The problem with that is that mafia won't cooperate with a witch unless one of them was witched. Otherwise, it could be a townie baiting them even if a TI did claim witched. So finding them via control sounds better to me.
cob709 wrote:Joacgroso wrote:kyuss420 wrote:They can also find them by using TIs and scum reading, and spending their nights controlling townies instead of hindering who they suspect is evil.
The problem with that is that mafia won't cooperate with a witch unless one of them was witched. Otherwise, it could be a townie baiting them even if a TI did claim witched. So finding them via control sounds better to me.
Why is this considered a problem? The game is about lies and deception, not confirming roles with abilities.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
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