Ezradekezra wrote:/support
At least one guaranteed Mafia Support will be a nice buff, seeing how it contains three of the strongest Mafia roles. I'd suggest replacing the other RM slot with a Mafia Deception slot to keep things more balanced, though.
Harryyoshi wrote:I actually don't support this. This is the wrong place to make the game mode less swingy, since the game's outcome depends 10x more on what the Town roles are than the Mafia roles. Sure, it feels bad when you have double Framer, but it also means Town isn't expecting it. Half of the time Framer actually works if you are good at putting suspicion on other people, since Town just assumes Framers are useless. Double deception is fine, I'd rather make all Mafia roles unique than get rid of that instead of this. Firstly, Mafia Support also has the lowest skill-cap plays, so it doesn't correlate well with ranked. In fact, (double) Mafia deception gets better the higher elo you go, the better Disguiser, Forger, and Framer plays get. Blackmailer plays also get a bit better, but the rest of Mafia Support do the exact same thing. If you want ranked to be less swingy, remove Town Support or something that nerfs Town, not buffs Mafia. Mafia Deception and Support plays are good, it's just this is not the place to be less swingy, since once a Mafia Deception is killed, everyone knows there cannot be another one, and that they can't be fooled anymore. Secondly, Mafia Support hinders Neutral Killing as much, if not more than Town. Once Consigliere finds Neutral Killing early game, it's gg. Consort can infinite role block Arsonist to prevent them from igniting, and Blackmailer prevents Witch from going to Neutral Killing before Mafia. Mafia Deception, on the other hand, only harms the opposing majority, in this case, Town, instead of Neutral Killing.
By the way, how does Mafia Support counter Jailor meta? You didn't explain it at all, and I think you mean the opposite, which is bad for your case. Consigliere can find the quiet Jailor and kill them, and quiet Jailors will be outed by the Blackmailer when they try to whisper to confirmed townies.
Also, post these suggestions in Suggestions please.
MrIncendiary88 wrote:Its not all about making it less swingy, sure town doesnt expect double framer but how will you make that an advantage? Without sheriffs or investigators the skill level is not tos anymore, useless abilities then its just a matter of putting basic deception skills to practice in an irl mafia game. Skill is definitely a factor in where people should be ranked but think about balance too. A guaranteed Mafia Support will increase Maf winrate for sure (+ decrease leaving when people get mafia) and as you say have an edge against NK too. NK also has a high skill cap and Mafia are not going to interfere with NK earlygame anyway, most NKs will make suicidal plays.
MrIncendiary88 wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:/support
At least one guaranteed Mafia Support will be a nice buff, seeing how it contains three of the strongest Mafia roles. I'd suggest replacing the other RM slot with a Mafia Deception slot to keep things more balanced, though.
IMO Double Maf Support isn’t nearly as bad as double Maf Deception and that if Maf Support dies early the Town get a huge powerspike as they know they don’t have to deal with the strongest Maf roles anymore whereas with at least 1 RM there is still a chance of a Double Maf Support while giving equal chances for Maf Support and Maf Deception to spawn as RM
OreCreeper wrote:MrIncendiary88 wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:/support
At least one guaranteed Mafia Support will be a nice buff, seeing how it contains three of the strongest Mafia roles. I'd suggest replacing the other RM slot with a Mafia Deception slot to keep things more balanced, though.
IMO Double Maf Support isn’t nearly as bad as double Maf Deception and that if Maf Support dies early the Town get a huge powerspike as they know they don’t have to deal with the strongest Maf roles anymore whereas with at least 1 RM there is still a chance of a Double Maf Support while giving equal chances for Maf Support and Maf Deception to spawn as RM
I would disagree. Double blackmailer SUCKS especially when you have to get one of your RM to visit the jailor n1 to unconfirm TPs. If you do that it means no one will whisper anymore and you won't get any info, and if you don't all TPs are confirmed. Not to mention having two blackmailers is usually no better than having just one, unless you're doing the annoying "blackmail the same person for the entire game" strat but there's countless ways in which that could go wrong and it's overall just a bad strat and really annoying.
cob709 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:MrIncendiary88 wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:/support
At least one guaranteed Mafia Support will be a nice buff, seeing how it contains three of the strongest Mafia roles. I'd suggest replacing the other RM slot with a Mafia Deception slot to keep things more balanced, though.
IMO Double Maf Support isn’t nearly as bad as double Maf Deception and that if Maf Support dies early the Town get a huge powerspike as they know they don’t have to deal with the strongest Maf roles anymore whereas with at least 1 RM there is still a chance of a Double Maf Support while giving equal chances for Maf Support and Maf Deception to spawn as RM
I would disagree. Double blackmailer SUCKS especially when you have to get one of your RM to visit the jailor n1 to unconfirm TPs. If you do that it means no one will whisper anymore and you won't get any info, and if you don't all TPs are confirmed. Not to mention having two blackmailers is usually no better than having just one, unless you're doing the annoying "blackmail the same person for the entire game" strat but there's countless ways in which that could go wrong and it's overall just a bad strat and really annoying.
You either get info, or you prevent town from getting info. I don't see a problem with that.
It's about how they use it, blackmail important people, let the dumb ones speak
kosmo16 wrote:cob709 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:MrIncendiary88 wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:/support
At least one guaranteed Mafia Support will be a nice buff, seeing how it contains three of the strongest Mafia roles. I'd suggest replacing the other RM slot with a Mafia Deception slot to keep things more balanced, though.
IMO Double Maf Support isn’t nearly as bad as double Maf Deception and that if Maf Support dies early the Town get a huge powerspike as they know they don’t have to deal with the strongest Maf roles anymore whereas with at least 1 RM there is still a chance of a Double Maf Support while giving equal chances for Maf Support and Maf Deception to spawn as RM
I would disagree. Double blackmailer SUCKS especially when you have to get one of your RM to visit the jailor n1 to unconfirm TPs. If you do that it means no one will whisper anymore and you won't get any info, and if you don't all TPs are confirmed. Not to mention having two blackmailers is usually no better than having just one, unless you're doing the annoying "blackmail the same person for the entire game" strat but there's countless ways in which that could go wrong and it's overall just a bad strat and really annoying.
You either get info, or you prevent town from getting info. I don't see a problem with that.
It's about how they use it, blackmail important people, let the dumb ones speak
How often they blackmail you? :SMILE:
cob709 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:MrIncendiary88 wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:/support
At least one guaranteed Mafia Support will be a nice buff, seeing how it contains three of the strongest Mafia roles. I'd suggest replacing the other RM slot with a Mafia Deception slot to keep things more balanced, though.
IMO Double Maf Support isn’t nearly as bad as double Maf Deception and that if Maf Support dies early the Town get a huge powerspike as they know they don’t have to deal with the strongest Maf roles anymore whereas with at least 1 RM there is still a chance of a Double Maf Support while giving equal chances for Maf Support and Maf Deception to spawn as RM
I would disagree. Double blackmailer SUCKS especially when you have to get one of your RM to visit the jailor n1 to unconfirm TPs. If you do that it means no one will whisper anymore and you won't get any info, and if you don't all TPs are confirmed. Not to mention having two blackmailers is usually no better than having just one, unless you're doing the annoying "blackmail the same person for the entire game" strat but there's countless ways in which that could go wrong and it's overall just a bad strat and really annoying.
You either get info, or you prevent town from getting info. I don't see a problem with that.
It's about how they use it, blackmail important people, let the dumb ones speak
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This aged like milk
Janitor and ambusher suck now, the other MD suck more tjan before and MS is even better than it was
Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This aged like milk
Janitor and ambusher suck now, the other MD suck more tjan before and MS is even better than it was
I can see how Janitors viability goes down with lots of Random Towns, but it's likely still pretty useful, could even hide jailors as meta is less common now, It's still a good role.
Ambusher doesn't suck, extra KPN is always a good thing, problem with ambusher it's a bit inconsistent at times, but unlike "framer/disguiser" inconsistency the reward is good and a ambush is more common.
This list was a decent indirect buff to Consigilere as they actually have more to find, now jailors hiding, NK exists, theirs no a "100%" witch that normally finds mafia, Consigilere in general just benefits from this list, I wouldnt say consig is op but it's better then trash now, i like it.
Consort still good, SK/ww games exist so they have to be more careful, Consort can protect Mafia from arsonist so it's still pretty strong, they still can protect against Jailors, vigis Annoy Ti's, stop doctors/bodyguards, they're still a power house of mafia
Blackmailer, I don't know I don't see whispers as much, but bmer is still decent.
This list also has effects on town roles list Retri being a lot better because less janitor games and more KPN and dead town is a buff to retri lol.
This suggestion really isn't a great idea, BMG will think "MD" is fixed and instead of actually fixing half the MD roles they basically made a Band-Aid fix because they likely know mafia support in general is way better then roles like, Framer, Disguiser ect. You could also just make roles like Janitor "unique" if double Janitor games was a massive deal.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This aged like milk
Janitor and ambusher suck now, the other MD suck more tjan before and MS is even better than it was
I can see how Janitors viability goes down with lots of Random Towns, but it's likely still pretty useful, could even hide jailors as meta is less common now, It's still a good role.
Ambusher doesn't suck, extra KPN is always a good thing, problem with ambusher it's a bit inconsistent at times, but unlike "framer/disguiser" inconsistency the reward is good and a ambush is more common.
This list was a decent indirect buff to Consigilere as they actually have more to find, now jailors hiding, NK exists, theirs no a "100%" witch that normally finds mafia, Consigilere in general just benefits from this list, I wouldnt say consig is op but it's better then trash now, i like it.
Consort still good, SK/ww games exist so they have to be more careful, Consort can protect Mafia from arsonist so it's still pretty strong, they still can protect against Jailors, vigis Annoy Ti's, stop doctors/bodyguards, they're still a power house of mafia
Blackmailer, I don't know I don't see whispers as much, but bmer is still decent.
This list also has effects on town roles list Retri being a lot better because less janitor games and more KPN and dead town is a buff to retri lol.
This suggestion really isn't a great idea, BMG will think "MD" is fixed and instead of actually fixing half the MD roles they basically made a Band-Aid fix because they likely know mafia support in general is way better then roles like, Framer, Disguiser ect. You could also just make roles like Janitor "unique" if double Janitor games was a massive deal.
Janitor sucks not due to more RT, but because it instsntly reveals the RM slot as soon as it performs its ability
It also helps spy a lot when jani/ambusher are revealed, without counting MK and jani/ambusher visit, spy can easily tell what is MS
No visit=MS rbed/jailed or bmer
Silent visit=consig
Rbed=most likely consort
alex1234321 wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This aged like milk
Janitor and ambusher suck now, the other MD suck more tjan before and MS is even better than it was
I can see how Janitors viability goes down with lots of Random Towns, but it's likely still pretty useful, could even hide jailors as meta is less common now, It's still a good role.
Ambusher doesn't suck, extra KPN is always a good thing, problem with ambusher it's a bit inconsistent at times, but unlike "framer/disguiser" inconsistency the reward is good and a ambush is more common.
This list was a decent indirect buff to Consigilere as they actually have more to find, now jailors hiding, NK exists, theirs no a "100%" witch that normally finds mafia, Consigilere in general just benefits from this list, I wouldnt say consig is op but it's better then trash now, i like it.
Consort still good, SK/ww games exist so they have to be more careful, Consort can protect Mafia from arsonist so it's still pretty strong, they still can protect against Jailors, vigis Annoy Ti's, stop doctors/bodyguards, they're still a power house of mafia
Blackmailer, I don't know I don't see whispers as much, but bmer is still decent.
This list also has effects on town roles list Retri being a lot better because less janitor games and more KPN and dead town is a buff to retri lol.
This suggestion really isn't a great idea, BMG will think "MD" is fixed and instead of actually fixing half the MD roles they basically made a Band-Aid fix because they likely know mafia support in general is way better then roles like, Framer, Disguiser ect. You could also just make roles like Janitor "unique" if double Janitor games was a massive deal.
Janitor sucks not due to more RT, but because it instsntly reveals the RM slot as soon as it performs its ability
It also helps spy a lot when jani/ambusher are revealed, without counting MK and jani/ambusher visit, spy can easily tell what is MS
No visit=MS rbed/jailed or bmer
Silent visit=consig
Rbed=most likely consort
Back when Ranked had a single RT slot Janitor was by far the strongest Mafia role. So claimspace very much weakens Janitor. Revealing its existence is a disadvantage, but claimspace seems to be more significant.
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