Discussion of Behavior Moderation

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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:34 am

^ nobody here or itt is arguing for that, what?
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:13 am

TheDebil wrote:i also want to ban the word wagon because people from the baltics were transported to siberia using wagons to die there and the word makes me uncomfortable

like i get it

but its a stretch to even think about the racial thing

In the united states, almost all usage of the word outside of the mafia game is in reference to a specific type of hate crime
I grew up knowing the word with an explicitly racial connotation before I came to ToS

~~~
disclaimer: these are my general thoughts and in response to posts I've seen on this topic not made in this thread

I guess, just because the dictionary definitions miss it, and it means something that is linked to the atmosphere of the mafia game, and there's no replacement word that means exactly the same thing (dictionary defenition) doesn't mean we should continue to use it?
Words change. The word 'lynch' became racially charged in the US, and it's pointless to fight against language change (believe me, I did this a lot when I was younger)
just, accept that it makes people uncomfortable and move along imo
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby lemonader666 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:05 am

God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby cob709 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:08 am

lemonader666 wrote:God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world

Because FREEDOM
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:02 am

cob709 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world

Because FREEDOM

No, and stop assuming all Americans are people with guns and “FREEDOM” and fireworks and patriotism and fireworks and (especially) racism because...

1. That’s racist and hypocritical
2. There are people (like me) who dislike nearly all of those things (especially fireworks fuck fireworks)
3. Cob, please fucking stop
It's really fucking uncomfortable
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:03 am

Hellosither wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world

how have none of the gmods asked you to change your sig yet

I dunno, I think that sig is just a hassle to scroll down from and it ruins the aesthetic of the page, but that's just a personal thing
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:14 am

lemonader666 wrote:God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world

I missed the part where using the word "lynch" was intrinsically tied to your ability to be happy

But I mean you still can because I know of exactly one site that has gone further than making hosts change it on their end and merely suggesting users follow suit
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby ScorpioDiAngelo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:00 am

Hellosither wrote:
ScorpioDiAngelo wrote:The fact that all of these people are so salty over being asked to simply not use certain words is very telling of their world views. I, personally, am a white man. I have no reason to be offended by the n-slur. But I am a human being with the basic ability to empathize with others, so when I started to realize how that word hurts certain groups, I stopped using it. I didn't say "Well "n-slur" actually just means a trashy person. It's like "white-trash" for colored people. Why? Because regardless of my personal opinions, if a human being with thoughts and feel8ngs comes to me and explains that certain words or actions have a very negative impact on them, it's literally the easiest thing in the world to stop using that word.

On the other hand, the f-slur is extremely offensive and triggering to me on a personal level. Not only because of it's homophobic and hateful connotations; but because I have personal and traumatic experiences surrounding that word. Don't pretend like it's a huge burden to simply not use certain words when people simply want to be able to play a game or talk with people without being constantly reminded of horrible experiences in their own life.

Shame on you if you think that your "freedom" to use a certain word is more important than everyone else's freedom to be safe and happy. That is all.

who here is salty tho

no one is arguing against words severe as n-word or f-word being banned on this site, but the word "lynch" is obviously not racially charged in the context, and people frequently use the word to describe day death in town of salem so it's quite easy to see how outright banning the word might cause issues in terms of confusing newer players and players taking issue with not being able to use a word they deem not offensive in the context

I was talking more about people being salty about the
r-slur. But the point still stands. You may not understand why or how a word can be hurtful; but if someone tells you that it is, it's literally the easiest thing in the world to not use that word.
So yeah. Turns out that I'm not alright. Go figure.

Btw if I start acting really strange it's probably not me so just like ignore it.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Royee » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:39 am

Hellosither wrote:who here is salty tho

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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:21 pm

dolphina wrote:
cob709 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world

Because FREEDOM

No, and stop assuming all Americans are people with guns and “FREEDOM” and fireworks and patriotism and fireworks and (especially) racism because...


Huh, that's not what I first assumed cob meant. I think America has several different groups that have different ideas of what "Freedom" means. Personally I lean toward the "freedom of speech" crowd. At the risk of slightly misrepresenting the groups that I'm not a part of, I guess I'll call the other versions... "freedom from hate" and "having a place of your own"?

Or I could just call them the "grey tribe", "blue tribe" and "red tribe", `cause those are the names you should search for if you want to read the articles I got this idea from.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:32 pm

Brilliand wrote:
dolphina wrote:
cob709 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:God, why does the US have to ruin everything for the rest of the world

Because FREEDOM

No, and stop assuming all Americans are people with guns and “FREEDOM” and fireworks and patriotism and fireworks and (especially) racism because...


Huh, that's not what I first assumed cob meant. I think America has several different groups that have different ideas of what "Freedom" means. Personally I lean toward the "freedom of speech" crowd. At the risk of slightly misrepresenting the groups that I'm not a part of, I guess I'll call the other versions... "freedom from hate" and "having a place of your own"?

Or I could just call them the "grey tribe", "blue tribe" and "red tribe", `cause those are the names you should search for if you want to read the articles I got this idea from.


It was aimed toward lemonader

But ok
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby UzayAltay » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:20 pm

My two cents:

1) Snowflake is such a bad insult that when I First heard it I thought they tried to mean I am unique.
(Yeah This is irrelevant to main Discussion but still wanted to mention it. I personally wouldnt offended from It's usage against me.)

2) I already Said my opinion about r-word.

3) The word "lynch". I still cannot see The struggle there, somebody Said it is hard to be understandable by a non-American and I definitely agree. The part I cannot fully understand is whether The word being racist, usage of people on it is racist or it not being racist and just being horrible.

Going one by one, If The problem is it being horrible, Than Yes it is horrible. Mafia shooting people is Also horrible, even killing is horrible.
I Dont believe it is mainly about The word itself (compared to other common racist words ) . The word passed to Turkish without much change (with same pronouncation but different writing) and its meaning Dont imply anything racist in my mind.

Let me know If I am wrong on any part before, but from that it seems to me that problem is it being used in American context in racist meaning So frequently that people thinking it is racist, or thinking its racist meaning first, by heart.
I observed that in another forum , somebody using it in A racist way lead to discussions about that topic.
I agree that regardless of which word being used, in case of racist use , further action should be taken by mods. Nothing to discuss there.
Though I Dont believe that should be enough reason to ban The word itself. The argument on there felt slippery slope-ish, "lynch" is literally The act in The Game of Mafia (no usage of laws/no Trial based laws, a group of people using their number advantage/physical advantage to kill a smaller group/ person, only reason behind it being they thinking that person is Mafia/scum and should die, etc. I think only times where it Dont fit The term is lynches with 1 vote ) and I think nobody linki it to racist behavior, though If somebody tries to use it that way, they can be banned with no second doubt.

#no_to_racism
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:28 pm

Hellosither wrote:i cry every night at the thought of not being able to use the word lynch in my mafia games

but then i remember that we'd be replacing it with yeet or oof and i feel better


What if we replace it with "voted off the island"

so we can pretend no one ever dies
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Chemist1422 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:52 pm

as a player, yeet has strongly been growing on me as an unofficial replacement

as a host/mod, I just prefer to gravitate to whatever makes people more comfortable, usually I'll just use execute or say "[x] was..." after the final votecount because that gets the idea across without having to worry about the language choice

also final unofficial warning to keep things serious before I have to put on my mod hat
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby UzayAltay » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:58 pm

Execute is literally incorrect (lore-wise) version of kill.
I have no idea about yeet though I would probably prefer kill Over yeet.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:04 pm

Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:10 pm

what specific group of people?
racist people??
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:15 pm

ICECLIMBERS wrote:what specific group of people?
racist people??


Presumably "racist" means the same thing as "racist", yes.

Though ideally we should describe them with a more clearly-defined phrase such as "people who harbor hatred toward specific races of people".
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:16 pm

Brilliand wrote:Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.


They're usually used as descriptors, albeit negative descriptors in the search for equity. But banning these words would be like banning the phrase "You're a shitty person." I would ask instead to not use these words lightly or jokingly. Racism, homophobia, and transphobia are real, very serious issues.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:16 pm

I propose instead that if you see these words used in a joking manner, it could be reported.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Chemist1422 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:21 pm

Brilliand wrote:Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.

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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby itsmedash2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:31 pm

I was asked to take the bait here so uh

hey racism bad or something idk
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:54 pm

dolphina wrote:But banning these words would be like banning the phrase "You're a shitty person."


Well no, the difference is that words such as "racist" put the person in a specific category which is hated for being that category, and it's actually more common for people to not understand what a "racist" actually is than to not understand that racists are to be hated.

Phrases are also much safer from being slurs than single words are, because they're much more likely to actually explain themselves and put the listener in a position of being able to make their own decision.

Chemist1422 wrote:If you're going to argue in bad faith, I would recommend you quit now


'Scuse me? This argument legitimately makes sense to me, if I presume that slurs should be dealt with at all (which I'm not entirely convinced of).

When I said I've been called things just as stupid as the word "snowflake", I was thinking of the word "transphobic". Knowing that, I think what you should do is reciprocate in trying to clean up hurtful ill-defined words applied to both sides of the conflict, but I suspect that what you'll actually do is hate me because I've been called a transphobe. (And yet I still don't know what the word means... :cry: )
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:34 pm

Brilliand wrote:
dolphina wrote:But banning these words would be like banning the phrase "You're a shitty person."


Well no, the difference is that words such as "racist" put the person in a specific category which is hated for being that category, and it's actually more common for people to not understand what a "racist" actually is than to not understand that racists are to be hated.

Phrases are also much safer from being slurs than single words are, because they're much more likely to actually explain themselves and put the listener in a position of being able to make their own decision.

Chemist1422 wrote:If you're going to argue in bad faith, I would recommend you quit now


'Scuse me? This argument legitimately makes sense to me, if I presume that slurs should be dealt with at all (which I'm not entirely convinced of).

When I said I've been called things just as stupid as the word "snowflake", I was thinking of the word "transphobic". Knowing that, I think what you should do is reciprocate in trying to clean up hurtful ill-defined words applied to both sides of the conflict, but I suspect that what you'll actually do is hate me because I've been called a transphobe. (And yet I still don't know what the word means... :cry: )


You didn't pay attention to the rest of my argument~

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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby TrueGent » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:06 pm

havent really read this thread much but just gonna throw this out here that if you are seriously arguing to keep the word lynch as opposed to phasing it out then you really need to take a long hard look at yourself
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