Achilles wrote:who visited them (lookout for dead people, possibly too strong)
Achilles wrote:who the dead player visited each night
night ability feedback from each night (maybe limited to TI roles?) forwarding of TI info from each night would replace the lost last will when cleaned/stoned or if the dead player failed to leave an accurate will, also counters forged
Achilles wrote:Additionally: Should the Medium keep it's ability to open a seance with the living when the Medium dies?
Brilliand wrote:Previous threads on this topic:
On Medium (and Ret) - orangeandblack5's response to previous hints that you might want to rework Medium.
Medium (Town Support) - DragonClaw66's proposal for how to rework the Medium
Anyway, your idea seems very similar to DragonClaw's idea, so I'll just point out the tweaks I'd prefer:Achilles wrote:who visited them (lookout for dead people, possibly too strong)
No to this. You're right that it's probably too strong, but also I'd prefer the Medium can't get any info that the dead person themselves doesn't know.Achilles wrote:who the dead player visited each night
night ability feedback from each night (maybe limited to TI roles?) forwarding of TI info from each night would replace the lost last will when cleaned/stoned or if the dead player failed to leave an accurate will, also counters forged
I wouldn't limit the feedback to only TI roles, but I would limit all of this information to only targets that are in fact Town roles.Achilles wrote:Additionally: Should the Medium keep it's ability to open a seance with the living when the Medium dies?
Probably not. The Mafia should be able to get rid of the Medium by killing it, not just have it keep doing its job from the grave.
Achilles wrote:What are the balance reasons for his Medium not getting any feedback on non-Town roles?
Achilles wrote:I'm brainstorming with the other Devs. Here is a potential idea we came up with to keep the Medium seance. Medium could not join the graveyard chat until they use their seance with a living member ability.
Brilliand wrote:Achilles wrote:What are the balance reasons for his Medium not getting any feedback on non-Town roles?
My thinking there is similar to my thinking on the "lookout for the dead" power: It's information that the current version of the Medium wouldn't be able to obtain, in this case due to the dead player being uncooperative rather than ignorant. I'm trying to stick close to the Medium's current role of retrieving information that the Town had and then lost.
From a pure balance perspective, the only concern I can think of is that certain Mafia visits might reveal something incriminating against other members of the Mafia, and it might even have a chilling effect on the Mafia's willingness to use their visits in certain ways (similar to the current Spy). This concern is probably more realistic in Coven, where there's a good chance that if the Potion Master exists, she will use her "heal" ability on a fellow Coven member fairly early on.
Ribe wrote:I think it's a terrible idea to mess with one of (if not) the most balanced role in the game. Ruining a well designed role just for the sake of people who leave the game isn't worth it.
HOWEVER, if your team is really "commited" into this "problem", just give the medium more seances.
Achilles wrote:I'm brainstorming with the other Devs. Here is a potential idea we came up with to keep the Medium seance. Medium could not join the graveyard chat until they use their seance with a living member ability.
FerretBandit wrote:Achilles wrote:I'm brainstorming with the other Devs. Here is a potential idea we came up with to keep the Medium seance. Medium could not join the graveyard chat until they use their seance with a living member ability.
Just remove Medium's seance. No one should have after-death abilities. I even think Jester shouldn't get to haunt someone and instead he just automatically roleblocks all his guilty and abstaining voters the following night.
Achilles wrote:Now that the Retributionist rework is completed we want to take a look at the Medium. The goal is to remove the Medium's dependency on dead players not leaving the game. While this change will stop players from contributing to the games outcome from the graveyard it will also remove a necessity for Town roles to not leave once they have died. Many members of the community have suggested that this will be a healthier and more fun environment for players. It will also allow the Medium to be a useful role, even if all of the dead players have left the game.
General Rework Idea:
Medium will now seance with a dead role each night.
Medium will learn important information about the dead player (Up for design debate here but things such as):
role (hard counter to janitor/medusa/disguiser/no role reveal game modes) - being a hard counter may be too strong
who visited them (lookout for dead people, possibly too strong)
who the dead player visited each night
night ability feedback from each night (maybe limited to TI roles?) forwarding of TI info from each night would replace the lost last will when cleaned/stoned or if the dead player failed to leave an accurate will, also counters forged wills
Additionally: Should the Medium keep it's ability to open a seance with the living when the Medium dies?
Opening the floor to debate and discussion.
FerretBandit wrote:I even think Jester shouldn't get to haunt someone and instead he just automatically roleblocks all his guilty and abstaining voters the following night.
cob709 wrote:Roleblocking is an after-death ability
wozearly wrote:I'm less comfortable with it hard countering Disguisers, as they have enough headaches and penalties as it is, not least having to die in order to deceive. Losing their ability to maintain the deception from the grave is a big hit to Disguiser. Short of a rework to Disguiser in response, I'd suggest that any Mafia/Coven action which changes the appearance of a dead role should appear to be legitimate when checked by the Medium to prevent hard countering.
Achilles wrote:Now that the Retributionist rework is completed we want to take a look at the Medium. The goal is to remove the Medium's dependency on dead players not leaving the game. While this change will stop players from contributing to the games outcome from the graveyard it will also remove a necessity for Town roles to not leave once they have died. Many members of the community have suggested that this will be a healthier and more fun environment for players. It will also allow the Medium to be a useful role, even if all of the dead players have left the game.
General Rework Idea:
Medium will now seance with a dead role each night.
Medium will learn important information about the dead player (Up for design debate here but things such as):
role (hard counter to janitor/medusa/disguiser/no role reveal game modes) - being a hard counter may be too strong
who visited them (lookout for dead people, possibly too strong)
who the dead player visited each night
night ability feedback from each night (maybe limited to TI roles?) forwarding of TI info from each night would replace the lost last will when cleaned/stoned or if the dead player failed to leave an accurate will, also counters forged wills
Additionally: Should the Medium keep it's ability to open a seance with the living when the Medium dies?
Opening the floor to debate and discussion.
James2 wrote:
Just punish leavers. There's no reason to change the way medium works.
Matty89190 wrote:Bit of a left-field idea, but what about giving the medium the option to forgo dead chat and seance with a player at night while alive.
Brilliand wrote:Matty89190 wrote:Bit of a left-field idea, but what about giving the medium the option to forgo dead chat and seance with a player at night while alive.
So creating a telepathic link between the living?
That's pretty much only good for confirmability. ...and asking for roles, exactly like the Jailor does.
BlastingOff wrote:while not a guarantee to fix the problem of that Medium being useless when all the dead leave, one suggestion I have proposed in the past is to give a dead player a notification that there's at least one Medium alive in the current game. This could potentially push people to stay, though salty ragequitters probably wouldn't care, but at that point, leaving while knowing there's a Medium to pass valuable to the Town information through is pretty much the equivalent of gamethrowing
Ribe wrote:I think it's a terrible idea to mess with one of (if not) the most balanced role in the game. Ruining a well designed role just for the sake of people who leave the game isn't worth it.
HOWEVER, if your team is really "commited" into this "problem", just give the medium more seances.
MysticMismagius wrote:Perhaps the "gain information from the dead" ability could be used along with Medium's current ability, with people who have left the game
That way we can keep the Medium's current abilities, but if people leave there is a backup plan to get that information
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