Engineer (TI)

[PikamanUltra]

Engineer
Alignment: Town Investigative
Immunities: None
Attack: None
Defence: None
Non-Unique, limit of 2 per game
Summary: The local blacksmith, adapting to these dark times by creating his own weapons.
Abilities: You may choose a player to forge each night.
Attributes:
• If you forge someone, you will learn of their weapon, or lack thereof.
• You will then have the ability to use that weapon the next night.
Forging results:
Fill in text:
Using your target’s weapon as a base, you created a _____
• Gun: Godfather, Mafioso, Vigilante, Sheriff, Veteran.
• Blade: Ambusher, Pirate, Serial Killer, Vampire Hunter,
• Baton: Bodyguard, Jailor
• Trap: Trapper (So basically a confirm)
Unique Text:
• You poisoned yourself trying to tame the chemicals your target uses! You will die tomorrow!: Doctor, Potion Master, Plague Bearer, Janitor, Poisoner. (Can be healed, regardless of Necronomicon.)
• You burned yourself alive trying to tame the flames your target uses! You died!: Arsonist
• Your target uses magic far beyond your comprehension, you failed to make a weapon!: Medium, Retributionist, Psychic, Hypnotist, Witch, Coven Leader, Hex Mater, Necromancer, Medusa.
• Your target was born with abilities such as this, you could never replicate it, you failed to make a weapon!: Escort, Investigator, Lookout, Spy, Tracker, Consort, Consigliere,
• Your target is a Supernatural! You failed to make a weapon!: Guardian Angel, Crusader, Juggernaut, Vampire, Werewolf, Pestilence.
• Your target doesn’t seem to make use of an ability or weapon, you failed to make a weapon!: Every other role in the game.
Investigative results:
Sheriff: You can not find any evidence of wrongdoing, your target seems to be innocent.
Investigator: Your target could be a Lookout, Forger, Coven Leader or Engineer!
Consigliere: Your target examines people’s weapons and makes them for their own personal use. They must be an Engineer.
Goal: Lynch every criminal and evil-doer

Worked really hard on this! Hope you enjoy!

[OreCreeper]

Excuse me but why the fuck can this "TI" role do anything other than investigate? That is the ONLY thing Town Investigative roles are supposed to be able to do. This should be moved to Town Killing. You also never explained what each weapon does specifically.

[PikamanUltra]

It's TI because it gives a hint to that player's role, if this was TK it wouldn't make sense because you need to obtain a weapon every night first. The vigi doesnt wait a night in between each shot.
Also, every weapon is basic attack, you raised a good point with that one. I might consider this role being TI/TK fluid, but if I had to stick with one, it would be TI.

You made no attempt at constructive critisicm and instead insulted my work with about as much intelligence as a veteran alerting N1.
I can see you're an amnesiac, maybe one day you'll remember how to stop being a shallow pillon

[lemonader666]

TIs aren't supposed to be able to kill, and without it's killing abillity, it's extremely weak as it can only detect about 4 roles in a normal game(TK, GF, mafioso, NK), that's why detectives/psychologists/gunsmiths rarely show up here. The limit of 2 is nonsensical because why wouldn't you just make it unique or not unique at all?

You made no attempt at constructive critisicm and instead insulted my work with about as much intelligence as a veteran alerting N1.
I can see you're an amnesiac, maybe one day you'll remember how to stop being a shallow pillon

Ad hominem
He also didn't insult your work, he pointed out (with anger) that TIs should NEVER be able to do anything else other than investigate. He was being constructive by suggesting that it should be moved to TK and why.

[Brilliand]

it's extremely weak as it can only detect about 4 roles in a normal game(TK, GF, mafioso, NK)

Its investigative powers look about the same as the Investigator's to me. Yes, it has slightly fewer categories, but some of those are confirmed town or confirmed evil.

[PikamanUltra]

TIs aren't supposed to be able to kill, and without it's killing abillity, it's extremely weak as it can only detect about 4 roles in a normal game(TK, GF, mafioso, NK), that's why detectives/psychologists/gunsmiths rarely show up here. The limit of 2 is nonsensical because why wouldn't you just make it unique or not unique at all?

You made no attempt at constructive critisicm and instead insulted my work with about as much intelligence as a veteran alerting N1.
I can see you're an amnesiac, maybe one day you'll remember how to stop being a shallow pillon

Ad hominem
He also didn't insult your work, he pointed out (with anger) that TIs should NEVER be able to do anything else other than investigate. He was being constructive by suggesting that it should be moved to TK and why.

Exactly, the anger is what makes it insulting. I refuse to validate criticism that involves cussing and failing to show two sides of the story. He never complimented any features and instead 'Criticised' me with swear words and telling me all about how bad it is, I should not have to validate someone who criticises things they don't like by potraying them as trainwrecks with no redeeming qualities.
I do though, want to adress what you have brought up in terms of issues, as you have respectfully pointed out the flaws in my work. Thank you for your feedback.
The limit of 2 isn't a big issue for me, if people aren't happy with it I will gladly make it unique.
I believe now, that I have found a way to work around the TI or TK issue, when you create a weapon, your role changes to for example Engineer [Gun] or Engineer [Blade], ect. These roles would all be town killing. I believe that is a good way to solve the issue.
I do not believe he was being constructive in his response to my work. Although I must admit I may have come across as harsh aswell, while I still stand by what I said. I wold like to apologise for how I said it. I reccomend he do the same.
Once again, thank you for your feedback.

[Brilliand]

Exactly, the anger is what makes it insulting. I refuse to validate criticism that involves cussing and failing to show two sides of the story.

OreCreeper is in the right here. Calling people "insulting" when they point out something that you legitimately did wrong looks really bad.

Wait until he says something stupid to lecture him on everything you think he should be doing differently; it's more socially acceptable then.

I do not believe he was being constructive in his response to my work. Although I must admit I may have come across as harsh aswell, while I still stand by what I said. I wold like to apologise for how I said it. I reccomend he do the same.

Long-time residents of this forum have taken to being harsh to people posting below-average roles, because we don't actually need more roles here. There are far too many roles posted on this subforum already. If being harsh causes people to post new roles less often, that's arguably a good thing.

Also, don't expect your role to be improved into something good. In this environment, with so many great roles already in the archives (and more ideas coming in every day from people who didn't search the archives), the best thing to do with any role idea that isn't great from the start is to promptly kill it off. Explaining why your role is bad and should be discarded is the closest thing to "constructive criticism" that you can expect here.

[PikamanUltra]

I'm really sorry, maybe your point isn't coming through here, if so please elaborate. But God forbid the actual, I'm in the right statement here is we have no room to accomodate to people new to the sub. No 'noobs' allowed. Be a veteran to the forums or get lost. The message you just sent is that because my account is relitavely new I'm not wanted and am part of the problem in making this sub over-active. If that isn't how you meant to put it, sorry, let's try again starting on a different foot and solve this issue diplomatically. If what I detailed above is true, then that's really kinda scummy of the entire sub.
I generally want to try this again because I feel I got too hostile too quick, I'm sorry for that, but I will continue to defend my right to post what I want here without being told to get lost and go home just because the consencus is a few people don't like it.

Also, maybe if you want to continue this conversation we could do it in PM's? this topic has quickly become a cess pool of arguing, and I kinda wanna continue this elsewhere.
Really sorry if I misunderstood.
Also, in all of my other posts I have gotten respectful comments, and I'd say this is my best idea, maybe next to Firefighter. So maybe the issue isn't my rubbish ideas, but OreCreeper himself. One look at his post history tells you he's kinda toxic. Both in forums and in game, which he is banned from.

We should probably just agree to disagree on this one before the metamorphisis into keyboard warriors begins lol.

[Brilliand]

Also, maybe if you want to continue this conversation we could do it in PM's? this topic has quickly become a cess pool of arguing, and I kinda wanna continue this elsewhere.
Really sorry if I misunderstood.

Agreed. I've replied by PM.