Superalex11 wrote:Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this just come down to surviving 3 nights (maybe 4 due to disruptions)?
JacksonVirgo wrote:This can essentially claim D1 and claim what they're doing and win by N3 without being killed
Boredfan1 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:This can essentially claim D1 and claim what they're doing and win by N3 without being killed
No. Why would anyone want to keep it around? It hurts everyone. Town would also lynch it just because it's not town and they can't use it against the mafia or vamps or coven. They'd be shot by vig or exed by the jailor for the same reasons. Mafia can't really use it either, nor coven or vamps so they'd kill it.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:This can essentially claim D1 and claim what they're doing and win by N3 without being killed
No. Why would anyone want to keep it around? It hurts everyone. Town would also lynch it just because it's not town and they can't use it against the mafia or vamps or coven. They'd be shot by vig or exed by the jailor for the same reasons. Mafia can't really use it either, nor coven or vamps so they'd kill it.
Why does majority of Towns let Pirate live when they can kill town then?
Boredfan1 wrote:Why would anyone want to keep it around?
Superalex11 wrote:Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this just come down to surviving 3 nights (maybe 4 due to disruptions)?
JacksonVirgo wrote:The role just doesn't work as a Neutral, sorry to say.
NefariousDjinn wrote:Superalex11 wrote:Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this just come down to surviving 3 nights (maybe 4 due to disruptions)?JacksonVirgo wrote:The role just doesn't work as a Neutral, sorry to say.
Both of these are valid points.
NefariousDjinn wrote:On principal I don't have much issue with the concept, it's nearly identical to my suggestion for fixing the disguiser after all but that role is dependent on being attached to a faction. It doesn't work as a neutral unaligned role like this.
And this is another role that would just function by pushing two buttons x times to win. Which is a bad mechanic for game play. It makes the role unengaging as you're not really doing anything beyond being a mechanism to notch a counter towards victory.
This role is a complete non-starter as it is currently designed. It doesn't control its own fate and just notches it way to victory by completing an arbitrary task each night with no engagement from town or any other role.
/no support.
Boredfan1 wrote:it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it.
Boredfan1 wrote:NefariousDjinn wrote:Superalex11 wrote:Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this just come down to surviving 3 nights (maybe 4 due to disruptions)?JacksonVirgo wrote:The role just doesn't work as a Neutral, sorry to say.
Both of these are valid points.
Except they don't have any weight behind them. To address the first one again, it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it. To address the second "point" it doesn't actually work all that well as mafia, it currently literally does NOTHING for the mafia nor does it fit in with the theme of mafia which is why I said it should be neutral.
NefariousDjinn wrote:On principal I don't have much issue with the concept, it's nearly identical to my suggestion for fixing the disguiser after all but that role is dependent on being attached to a faction. It doesn't work as a neutral unaligned role like this.
And this is another role that would just function by pushing two buttons x times to win. Which is a bad mechanic for game play. It makes the role unengaging as you're not really doing anything beyond being a mechanism to notch a counter towards victory.
This role is a complete non-starter as it is currently designed. It doesn't control its own fate and just notches it way to victory by completing an arbitrary task each night with no engagement from town or any other role.
/no support.
It DOES work as neutral, just read the god damn thing and actually think about it! Disguiser is perfect for causing chaos because it messes with investigative results such as investigator, sheriff and lookout, it wins with everyone but town so neutrals and maf don't really have a reason to lynch it and if they get the help of the disguiser, it acts as a buff for them. And no, it's not a bad mechanic, it does take a bit of thought because the town will be the majority and they have to be careful not to get themselves lynched or killed at night. Not to mention if it decides to side with one faction such as mafia or serial killer then other evil factions WILL want to get it lynched. That makes it a somewhat difficult role but it interacts with all roles and can benefit everyone but town. That's highly engaging. Not to mention no one complains about the pirate which is also a count towards victory. Not to mention it the fact that in my survivor rework people said games can end in four days which this wouldn't usually allow but in those cases, three would give the possibility of this role winning. So ya, it DOES control it's own fate. Please actually stop and think about how this role would work and play instead of looking at it so superficially.
Brilliand wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it.
Frankly, Pirate sucks. But even the Pirate has to survive (on average) 6 nights, not just the 3 that this role needs; and even the Pirate at least causes some deaths, while this role is free to be completely harmless.
Brilliand wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it.
Frankly, Pirate sucks. But even the Pirate has to survive (on average) 6 nights, not just the 3 that this role needs; and even the Pirate at least causes some deaths, while this role is free to be completely harmless.
NefariousDjinn wrote:Brilliand wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it.
Frankly, Pirate sucks. But even the Pirate has to survive (on average) 6 nights, not just the 3 that this role needs; and even the Pirate at least causes some deaths, while this role is free to be completely harmless.
It's not even that the role can win in 3 nights. It's that the role essentially can't lose if it makes it to 3 nights.
The fact that the role also doesn't have to accomplish anything in those 3 night cycles is a secondary but also very valid point.
Boredfan1 wrote:NefariousDjinn wrote:Brilliand wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it.
Frankly, Pirate sucks. But even the Pirate has to survive (on average) 6 nights, not just the 3 that this role needs; and even the Pirate at least causes some deaths, while this role is free to be completely harmless.
It's not even that the role can win in 3 nights. It's that the role essentially can't lose if it makes it to 3 nights.
The fact that the role also doesn't have to accomplish anything in those 3 night cycles is a secondary but also very valid point.
No. Let me spell out a real possibility for you.
N1: Jailed, no mafia deaths.
D2: Called out but no one was roleblocked and no one was healed,the town hangs you.
OR
N1: Jailed
N2: Roleblocked, no maf deaths
N3: Roleblocked, no maf deaths
D4: Hung
And what the hell are you talking about not having to accomplish anything? They need to disguise someone! It's not like they do nothing at night for three nights and automatically win! LEARN TO READ!!!!
JacksonVirgo wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:NefariousDjinn wrote:Brilliand wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:it's a lot like pirate's mechanic yet no is complaining about it or saying "it's just surviving" so it makes no sense to even address it.
Frankly, Pirate sucks. But even the Pirate has to survive (on average) 6 nights, not just the 3 that this role needs; and even the Pirate at least causes some deaths, while this role is free to be completely harmless.
It's not even that the role can win in 3 nights. It's that the role essentially can't lose if it makes it to 3 nights.
The fact that the role also doesn't have to accomplish anything in those 3 night cycles is a secondary but also very valid point.
No. Let me spell out a real possibility for you.
N1: Jailed, no mafia deaths.
D2: Called out but no one was roleblocked and no one was healed,the town hangs you.
OR
N1: Jailed
N2: Roleblocked, no maf deaths
N3: Roleblocked, no maf deaths
D4: Hung
And what the hell are you talking about not having to accomplish anything? They need to disguise someone! It's not like they do nothing at night for three nights and automatically win! LEARN TO READ!!!!
Yeah because that happens every single game.
jiar37 wrote:While this role is not completely harmless, it is basically as harmless as a transporter is.
As Jackson said just before me, the dying n1-3 three part is true for every single other role in the game, which means this role has nothing special stopping it from winning. Both of the "real possibilities" could happen to almost any role.
And like so many others have said,
This role DOES NOT ACTUALLY NEED TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING.
It has the sole purpose of disguising others, and does not have to do any specific task except visiting them for 3 days. It doesn't need to live after it completes 3 disguises, doesn't need to hang anyone to win, and doesn't really need to provide any input except clicking it's role options at night and not getting hung. Staying alive for 3 nights in most games is really easy, as most of the time there has only been 3-4 deaths when n3 hits (maf hitting once a day / ww killing n2).
Also, I just wanted to point out that this role is very similar to a neutral version of the transporter, which is town and helps town more than hinders.
;P
Boredfan1 wrote:1: I don't have a problem taking criticism, I have a problem with people who CLEARLY don't even understand the thing they are giving criticism of giving criticism and targeting things that aren't even true or a problem. I keep addressing EVERY point made but you don't seem to get why you are wrong. EVERYTHING you guys criticize is a misconception of the role.
Boredfan1 wrote:7: The role exists to cause chaos, to make it so town can't just get an easy win all the time! It throws town into dissarray by disrupting their investigative results. I have said this multiple times now, how the hell do you not understand that after looking at it?!
Boredfan1 wrote:Then you can't read, Brilland. Everything everyone has said is based on misconceptions. You yourself clearly don't actually understand this role idea any better than anyone else besides me or you'd not get everything about it wrong. Also, there is no reason for it to work with town, it doesn't have to. So your idea of them clearing up confusion would be done by idiots. And anyone who'd believe such claims are idiots. I'm done with all of you, you aren't even trying, you are just wasting my time.
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