Observer (Town Investigative)

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Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:47 am

The initial concept was generated in this thread, but here I hope to build on it further in its own separate thread. Essentially it's a reverse spy, you see what your target has done but not who it was done on.

Observer
Alignment: Town Investigative

Ability: Check somebody at night to see what action they've performed

Attributes:
  • You will not see your targets results, only what type of action was performed
    Brackets aren't shown in the message, they're here to show what roles will show it if they visit.
    • Your target has dug up information on their target. (sheriff, consigliere, investigator)
    • Your target has watched their target from afar (lookout, tracker, witch, observatore)
    • Your target visited with killing intent (vigilante, jailor, mafia (that killed))
    • Your target visited to support their faction (a town/mafia support role)
    • Your target visited to protect their kind (disguiser, Town Protective)
    • Your target waited for an ideal moment (staying at home, non-visiting abilities)

This is not a fully developed role but just to seperate it from the other thread since it was off-topic.

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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:21 pm

This seems very similar to the Investigator, in that it divides the possible roles up into several short lists. It differs from the Investigator in that it doesn't get any results if the target "stayed home", but other than that, it's essentially an Investigator that has its results grouped in a different way.

Note that the "visited with killing intent" category is probably overpowered for this role, since Vigilantes and Jailors confirm themselves if they visit, leaving only the various killing evils (which tend to visit every night).
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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby Boredfan1 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:51 pm

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea however, I do suggest a couple of changes.

1st: If they visit someone that kills, they simple get the message "Your target killed someone!" though nothing specific. It does have the issue of confirming vigilantes however, it can't confirm anything else and it wouldn't confirm veterans any differently than any other role. However, if they failed to kill their target, then this role should get whatever message that the person did such as the person was jailed or immune.

2nd: If they visit an investigative role, they get the message "Your target has gathered information on their target!" with any role lists being different between mafia and coven mode.

The mafia mode would have Investigator/Sheriff/Consigliere/Lookout/Spy/Blackmailer/Observer

Coven mode would Investigator/Sheriff/Consigliere/Lookout/Spy/Blackmailer/Psychic/Tracker/Observer


3rd: Disguiser would be part of support so it goes there.

4th: If someone got roleblocked, then this role should get that last message "Your target waited for an ideal moment".
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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby StrahmDude » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:06 am

Brilliand wrote:This seems very similar to the Investigator, in that it divides the possible roles up into several short lists. It differs from the Investigator in that it doesn't get any results if the target "stayed home", but other than that, it's essentially an Investigator that has its results grouped in a different way.

Note that the "visited with killing intent" category is probably overpowered for this role, since Vigilantes and Jailors confirm themselves if they visit, leaving only the various killing evils (which tend to visit every night).

Same power as a lookout. No one would cc a jailor claim and you see when someone dies to a vig. It really wouldn't be overpowered in the slightest.
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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:38 am

StrahmDude wrote:
Brilliand wrote:This seems very similar to the Investigator, in that it divides the possible roles up into several short lists. It differs from the Investigator in that it doesn't get any results if the target "stayed home", but other than that, it's essentially an Investigator that has its results grouped in a different way.

Note that the "visited with killing intent" category is probably overpowered for this role, since Vigilantes and Jailors confirm themselves if they visit, leaving only the various killing evils (which tend to visit every night).

Same power as a lookout. No one would cc a jailor claim and you see when someone dies to a vig. It really wouldn't be overpowered in the slightest.


regarding both you and brilliand. It is like the Investigator and that's the kind of issue I had from it from the beginning but I feel with enough changes it may work much differently and can work in combination with a spy/investigator for more deduction.

Boredfan1 wrote:I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea however, I do suggest a couple of changes.

1st: If they visit someone that kills, they simple get the message "Your target killed someone!" though nothing specific. It does have the issue of confirming vigilantes however, it can't confirm anything else and it wouldn't confirm veterans any differently than any other role. However, if they failed to kill their target, then this role should get whatever message that the person did such as the person was jailed or immune.

2nd: If they visit an investigative role, they get the message "Your target has gathered information on their target!" with any role lists being different between mafia and coven mode.

The mafia mode would have Investigator/Sheriff/Consigliere/Lookout/Spy/Blackmailer/Observer

Coven mode would Investigator/Sheriff/Consigliere/Lookout/Spy/Blackmailer/Psychic/Tracker/Observer


3rd: Disguiser would be part of support so it goes there.

4th: If someone got roleblocked, then this role should get that last message "Your target waited for an ideal moment".


For point 1, I disagree. I think that if roles that can harm other players (vigilante, jailor (even if they're not executing), veteran, mafia that kills, poisoner) should have that the visited with harmful intent so they aren't 100% outted if they're caught this way.

2. Not sure what you're saying with this point sorry outside of the investigator results. In which they seem a tad big?

3. Disguiser does fit in support but I felt it might fit better if they visit with whatever their target would visit with, fitting the Disguiser concept. That may be bad though

4. Yeah this is perfect, I completely agree.

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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:45 pm

I don't see the benefit of having "Your target visited with killing intent." over "Your target killed someone!". Yours gives more information that can be used to confirm someone.

Also, please stop using gifs for your signature, they are really annoying and I can't block them.
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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:29 am

Boredfan1 wrote:I don't see the benefit of having "Your target visited with killing intent." over "Your target killed someone!". Yours gives more information that can be used to confirm someone.

Also, please stop using gifs for your signature, they are really annoying and I can't block them.

It really should be 'Malicious' intent and that would be Crusader, Jailor, Vigilante, Veteran, Mafia killing, Poison, Pirate. Because "Killed someone" is essentially a death sentence if a jailor/vigi doesn't kill

But my gifs are great :'c

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Re: Observer (Town Investigative)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:46 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:I don't see the benefit of having "Your target visited with killing intent." over "Your target killed someone!". Yours gives more information that can be used to confirm someone.

Also, please stop using gifs for your signature, they are really annoying and I can't block them.

It really should be 'Malicious' intent and that would be Crusader, Jailor, Vigilante, Veteran, Mafia killing, Poison, Pirate. Because "Killed someone" is essentially a death sentence if a jailor/vigi doesn't kill

But my gifs are great :'c


But his gifs are cool :C
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