JacksonVirgo wrote:No, it'd be a stronger Consigliere
Boredfan1 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:No, it'd be a stronger Consigliere
Not really. Like I said, they can make it so you can't say what the role was in mafia chat and you have to keep disguising as someone to keep up the appearance so your pretty limited in the info you can gather with it anyways. Without this, the role is pretty impossible.
Godfather: Hey disg, what alignment are ya?
Disguiser: TI
Godfather: 1, sheriff. 2, investigator. 3, ......
Disguiser: 1
MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
MysticMismagius wrote:But being able to choose whatever role you disguise as allows you to use all aspects of your disguise more effectively. The fact that you flip as the role you disguised as (while problematic in that it encourages you to die) can be used to stir up chaos and cause multiple people to be mislynched in your wake, or to cause the neutering of the Jailor or Vigilante.
Boredfan1 wrote:I agree with Jackson here. An okay strat is to disguise and get yourself hung as a stupid townie to throw off town but it leaves the rest of the game as AFK simulator.
And ya, I'll work with you, Jackson.
Boredfan1 wrote:Honestly, I can't think of anything right now. My only suggestion would be to disguise others but that's close to the framer ability so unless they are willing to just remove framer, which I doubt, then it doesn't work.
Boredfan1 wrote:I like it but here's a tweak. There are two disguise abilities; Appearance & Role. The appearance disguise only causes the disguised to appear as someone else when visiting so if Giles Corey is the mafioso but he's disguised as Jailer (the always used name) then the lookout sees jailor but if the investigator checks Giles, he still comes up as Vig/Vet/Mafioso. This allows the mafia to frame someone as mafioso while protecting their own butts. Now, the role disguise ability ONLY changes the role results of the selected person. This means that someone promoted to mafioso from say consigliere can still use their will from before their promotion which is especially helpful if you manage to get yourself confirmed by lynching an NK or NE or in the case of coven mode, a coven member. This helps ensure the mafia stays strong as long as they don't slip up or the town becomes wise to their ruse due to their own intelligence or maybe the help of neutrals. Of course, the tracker part remains the same.
Honestly, I feel like if they implemented the above though, the framer would become useless since the disguiser would do it's job better, actually living up to that namesake. The only way I could see framer being kept is if they could change the mafia kill to the kill of say a neutral killing or a townie role like vet. The problem being though that these two roles would be similar.
Boredfan1 wrote:I agree with Jackson here. An okay strat is to disguise and get yourself hung as a stupid townie to throw off town but it leaves the rest of the game as AFK simulator.
Brilliand wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:I agree with Jackson here. An okay strat is to disguise and get yourself hung as a stupid townie to throw off town but it leaves the rest of the game as AFK simulator.
Sort of like when you manage to use your ability as Bodyguard?
JacksonVirgo wrote:MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
Yeah but that doesn't make the role very 'fun' or deceptivey especially since it only really affects ONE of the twenty bajillion TI roles
Kyosji wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
Yeah but that doesn't make the role very 'fun' or deceptivey especially since it only really affects ONE of the twenty bajillion TI roles
Role isn't fun now. Whenever I chose Disguiser, I don't click anything. There's really no point in it. You live longer not doing anything because you avoid vets and WW targets. Selecting a random role, you have no way to impersonate anything because you have NO idea what that role is. You chose the target your GF kills, you're that role for that day...then what? The entire premises of that role makes no sense, and honestly I don't understand why it's even in the game. It doesn't benefit anyone except sometimes throw off the count of mafia town sees, which is meaningless anyways since the mafia spawn count is random.
Kirize12 wrote:MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
I'd still allow it to benign visit, since it allows it to claim protective. Maybe with a two-shot beguiler?
Kyosji wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
Yeah but that doesn't make the role very 'fun' or deceptivey especially since it only really affects ONE of the twenty bajillion TI roles
Role isn't fun now. Whenever I chose Disguiser, I don't click anything. There's really no point in it. You live longer not doing anything because you avoid vets and WW targets. Selecting a random role, you have no way to impersonate anything because you have NO idea what that role is. You chose the target your GF kills, you're that role for that day...then what? The entire premises of that role makes no sense, and honestly I don't understand why it's even in the game. It doesn't benefit anyone except sometimes throw off the count of mafia town sees, which is meaningless anyways since the mafia spawn count is random.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:Honestly, I can't think of anything right now. My only suggestion would be to disguise others but that's close to the framer ability so unless they are willing to just remove framer, which I doubt, then it doesn't work.
What if the Disguiser has two night abilities, only one of which can be used in one night. They can either disguise or manipulate (manipulate sounds wrong but yeah). If they disguise, they can choose a player to disguise and a player for that person to be disguised as, the person disguised will appear as the disguisee (the person they're disguised as) both in role and face. So that Lookouts see the disguised person visit as the disguisee and Trackers will see the disguised person visiting instead of the disguisee if they target them (x is disguised as y, y is being tracked but tracker sees x's visit instead). Sheriff/Investigator will see the disguisee's role if the disguised is checked and yeah. Manipulation could be just be swapping invest checks between two people. Select two people, any investigative ability that targets one will target the other.
I mean it's not the greatest and it needs work but it does make it more dynamic I feel.
Framer could be changed so that it stockpiles and are all permanent until someone is checked. So that N1 they frame x (not checked by invest/sheriff), N2 they frame y (neither checked), N3 they frame z but y is checked and shows as frame/vamp/jest but then all x, y, z aren't framed anymore. Not sure but that would make it different than Disguiser just disguising someone as a mafia member
Boredfan1 wrote:I like it but here's a tweak. There are two disguise abilities; Appearance & Role. The appearance disguise only causes the disguised to appear as someone else when visiting so if Giles Corey is the mafioso but he's disguised as Jailer (the always used name) then the lookout sees jailor but if the investigator checks Giles, he still comes up as Vig/Vet/Mafioso. This allows the mafia to frame someone as mafioso while protecting their own butts. Now, the role disguise ability ONLY changes the role results of the selected person. This means that someone promoted to mafioso from say consigliere can still use their will from before their promotion which is especially helpful if you manage to get yourself confirmed by lynching an NK or NE or in the case of coven mode, a coven member. This helps ensure the mafia stays strong as long as they don't slip up or the town becomes wise to their ruse due to their own intelligence or maybe the help of neutrals. Of course, the tracker part remains the same.
Honestly, I feel like if they implemented the above though, the framer would become useless since the disguiser would do it's job better, actually living up to that namesake. The only way I could see framer being kept is if they could change the mafia kill to the kill of say a neutral killing or a townie role like vet. The problem being though that these two roles would be similar.
one could argue that it’s still disguising, just as a role instead of a person. It’s like how ancient ninjas disguised as peddlers or whatever job would fit for the mission: they didn’t have to be disguised as a particular person for it to be called a disguise.Boredfan1 wrote:As a benign visit that cannot be seen by spy, it would probably be decent however, then it wouldn't be disguiser but something else so it would have to be renamed. That's not necessarily a bad thing though I'm not one to look to for naming.Kirize12 wrote:I'd still allow it to benign visit, since it allows it to claim protective. Maybe with a two-shot beguiler?MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
MysticMismagius wrote:one could argue that it’s still disguising, just as a role instead of a person. It’s like how ancient ninjas disguised as peddlers or whatever job would fit for the mission: they didn’t have to be disguised as a particular person for it to be called a disguise.Boredfan1 wrote:As a benign visit that cannot be seen by spy, it would probably be decent however, then it wouldn't be disguiser but something else so it would have to be renamed. That's not necessarily a bad thing though I'm not one to look to for naming.Kirize12 wrote:I'd still allow it to benign visit, since it allows it to claim protective. Maybe with a two-shot beguiler?MysticMismagius wrote:Or, just remove Disguiser's ability to visit entirely, and instead let them pick any role they want to disguise as.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests