Brilliand wrote:IMO the Coven Leader is so overpowered relative to the Godfather that this change wouldn't be enough.
In non-coven Ranked Practice, a witch can dominate either the Mafia or the Neutral Killing, forcing one of them to lose so that the other can win. In the same way, a Coven Leader in All Any can dominate either the Mafia or a Neutral Killing, ensuring that that faction has to rely on the support of the Town to have any chance of winning.
Actually... the Godfather is in the same position as the Serial Killer, relative to the Coven Leader. So let's compare the CL with the SK in the Coven Ranked Practice list. If the CL finds the SK, she can then dominate the SK each night, making it impossible for the SK to perform his regular function of killing whichever faction is ahead; instead, he becomes effectively a Town member with no night ability. The faction leader of a 4-member faction should not have this sort of power over the solo SK.
Brilliand wrote:Actually... the Godfather is in the same position as the Serial Killer, relative to the Coven Leader. So let's compare the CL with the SK in the Coven Ranked Practice list. If the CL finds the SK, she can then dominate the SK each night, making it impossible for the SK to perform his regular function of killing whichever faction is ahead; instead, he becomes effectively a Town member with no night ability. The faction leader of a 4-member faction should not have this sort of power over the solo SK.
kyuss420 wrote:while its not a stupid strategy, as SK wont be killing any coven, they are more likely to be controlled into a trap on the psy, or into the vet, or into a BG on the jailor, than remain at the CLs beck and call
Brilliand wrote:Removing the Necronomicon's Night Immunity feature would balance out the coven vs. Maf/SK interaction well enough (in the form of "whoever finds the other first wins" rather than mutual immunity, but that's still balance). I doubt the Vig being able to kill the CL would make much difference.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Brilliand wrote:Removing the Necronomicon's Night Immunity feature would balance out the coven vs. Maf/SK interaction well enough (in the form of "whoever finds the other first wins" rather than mutual immunity, but that's still balance). I doubt the Vig being able to kill the CL would make much difference.
I reckon CL should keep their one-hit shield but yeah, Coven having no defense would work nicely, means Mafia needs to take out a giant threat and can 'easily' do it without relying on Town.
kyuss420 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:Brilliand wrote:Removing the Necronomicon's Night Immunity feature would balance out the coven vs. Maf/SK interaction well enough (in the form of "whoever finds the other first wins" rather than mutual immunity, but that's still balance). I doubt the Vig being able to kill the CL would make much difference.
I reckon CL should keep their one-hit shield but yeah, Coven having no defense would work nicely, means Mafia needs to take out a giant threat and can 'easily' do it without relying on Town.
Yea, lets remove GodFathers defence while we're at it, in case only hex master and necromancer spawn in a game and coven have to rely on town to take out a threat -_-
kyuss420 wrote:yea but they dont always spawn together.. and PM can only use a heal pot every 3rd night and with a psy alive, they are rarely alive together long enough to use a heal pot twice
Also you forget VIP mode, where the CL has to break TP chains, the night immunity making the CL crusader immune. Taking away CLs basic defence eliminates easily half (if not all) of the strategies CL can utilise on a crus on crus game. The only way to break a crus on crus chain, without immunity, is to have a PM alive with a heal pot ready and a poisoner alive (and spawned in game to start with) and the CL alive. Or, have a Necromancer in game with a dead vigi by the time the heal pot is ready. Sure you could send 1 of the crus to themselves while the PM heals, but if the crus hits the CL instead of the other crus, then you have to wait 3 nights for the kill pot to be ready again, and seeing as everyone has claimed by day 3, there isnt that kinda time.
If you think coven is too overpowered, maybe you should jump into vip mode for a day, and see how well they do....
Google wrote:Why is this an argument
Coven is easier
PleaseReadSiege wrote:Google wrote:Why is this an argument
Coven is easier
So GF should win against CL is what you're saying?
Google wrote:PleaseReadSiege wrote:Google wrote:Why is this an argument
Coven is easier
So GF should win against CL is what you're saying?
Yup
Brilliand wrote:In other words, since the CL is so more powerful than the GF, the CL has to beat the GF in draw resolution. It's sort of like the reason Godfather beats Transporter, but Mafioso loses to Transporter. The more powerful role wins.
Google wrote:Brilliand wrote:In other words, since the CL is so more powerful than the GF, the CL has to beat the GF in draw resolution. It's sort of like the reason Godfather beats Transporter, but Mafioso loses to Transporter. The more powerful role wins.
its supposed to be because who is more worthy of win..
Brilliand wrote:Google wrote:Brilliand wrote:In other words, since the CL is so more powerful than the GF, the CL has to beat the GF in draw resolution. It's sort of like the reason Godfather beats Transporter, but Mafioso loses to Transporter. The more powerful role wins.
its supposed to be because who is more worthy of win..
Kyuss makes a good point; "who deserves it" isn't the only concern. Making sure there are no perverse incentives is possibly a bigger deal.
Google wrote:Brilliand wrote:Kyuss makes a good point; "who deserves it" isn't the only concern. Making sure there are no perverse incentives is possibly a bigger deal.
making the game more "realistic" doesnt really matter due to the game being
well
yeah
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