Framer/Disguiser rework idea + new* Mafia Support role

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Framer/Disguiser rework idea + new* Mafia Support role

Postby Alexis17 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:01 pm

My idea and suggestion for Mafia roles is to rework or buff some of the existing roles and create a new Mafia Support role to help Mafia get a new source of information, as it's pretty much accepted by everyone that currently some of the Mafia roles are underwhelming. Addiotionaly, the Investigative results changes would allow all of these roles to have a slightly better claim space (assuming the case they do claim within their Investigative results).

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First, instead of buffing or removing Framer or Disguiser, as I've seen previously, mix both into a single Mafia role, the Falsificator:

Role Name: Falsificator
"A skilled counterfeiter who manipulates information."

Role Alignment: Mafia (Deception)

Abilities:
- Choose a Town role to disguise as at the start of the game. You may choose someone to frame at night.

Attributes:
- Your disguise takes one night to complete. If you are killed or visited by an Investigator, you will appear to be a [the role of your disguise].
- If your target is investigated they will appear to be a member of the Mafia.
- If there are no kill capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.

Has the same Goal and Win Conditions as any other Mafia role.

Additional Information/Reasoning:
Having Framer and Disguiser compressed into a single role will create a single role that can deceive the Town more effectively, whereas the current Framer and Disguiser roles rarely ever work. Addiotinaly, the Falsificator will be able to claim a fake role after the very first night, which they will not be able to change afterwards. If you are roleblocked or jailed the first night, you will be interrupted and must have to wait until the next night to attempt to disguise yourself again.

Like the current Disguiser, a Vigilante will not commit suicide if they shoot a Falsificator, a Retributionist will fail to revive them (likewise, Amnesiacs will become a Falsificator), the Jailor will not lose their executions, the Sheriff will still find them as suspicious regardless of their disguise, and they will die to a Vampire bite. For the Coven expansion, you will still be considered as Evil to a Psychic, and the Coven Leader and Potion Master will see your real role regardless of your disguise.

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Second, the Forger gets a QoL change that should help them overcome the problem of having to write a fake will in less than a minute so that it might seem legit:

Role Name: Forger
"A crooked lawyer that replaces documents."

Role Alignment: Mafia (Deception)

NEW Attributes:
- You will have access to a special page to edit your forgeries.

Additional Information/Reasoning:
Currently, most Forgers simply make a blank will or write something silly instead, which often reveals to the Town that a Forger exists. I suggest to give the Forger a page on which they can write and edit their forgeries at any time until the night ends and it's applied, which will allow them to coordinate with their fellow Mafia to know whose will is going to be forged so that they are able to falsify a player's will more effectively.

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Third, a new Mafia Support role is implemented to take the space of the previous Disguiser and to allow the Mafia to gather some more information, the Snooper:

Role Name: Snooper
"A sneaky double-agent who delivers information to the Mafia."
(English is not my first language, so feel free to suggest another name for this role)

Role Alignment: Mafia (Support)

Abilities:
- Visit a player each night to see what other players they contact or contact them

Attributes:
- You will know who visits your target or who do they visit.
- If there are no kill capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.

Has the same Goal and Win Conditions as any other Mafia role.

Additional Information/Reasoning:
This role effectively works as a Mafia Tracker/Lookut hybrid —I know, I know, nothing exactly new— that can tell who did their target visit or who visited them, except the role itself can not distinguish between the two, much like when a Plaguebearer spread the Infection by visiting or being visited. The objective is to create a role that can gather some "raw" information that should be good enough to viably claim a TI role once you have figured out those player's roles according to what you have and any extra information said players tell through the chat (e.g. claiming RB'ed), so you can assemble a correct Lookout or Tracker will, and even potentially guess another player's role to tell to the other Mafia.

Some Examples (with you being Player10):

Example One:
You have deciced to spy [Player 3] tonight.
+ In this case, no one visited your target and he likely does not have a visiting role either, but they still claims that a Witch controlled them. A Town member wouldn't lie (or shouldn't), so could they be an Executioner, or a Jester who's trying to convince other people that the NE is a Witch?

Example Two:
You have deciced to spy [Player14] tonight.
You were transported to another location.
Your target contacted [Player14].
Your target contacted [Player10].
+ In this case, you were transported and turns out you were contacted alongside your original target and no one else. This could indicate that you ended up visiting yourself, therefore your target is a Transporter who has transported themselves with you.

Example Three:
You have deciced to spy [Player 15] tonight.
+ In this case, no one visited your target and they did not visit anyone either. Boring night, but it's still information.

Example Four:
You have deciced to spy [Player 15] tonight.
Your target contacted [Player12].
+ In this case, your target visited the Player12, who has claimed to be the Jailor, and didn't contact anyone else. It is likely that your target has a Town Protective role, as they don't seem to be a Lookout or Spy.

Example Five:
You have deciced to spy [Player 8] tonight.
Your target contacted [Player5].
Your target contacted [Player1].
Your target contacted [Player7]. (Player7 is dead)
+ In this interesting and totally made up case, you saw your target contact Player7, who was revived that same night. Also, they contacted Player1, who you know is the Blackmailer that was supposed to stay on their home last night. Also, there's Player5 too who's claiming Investigator and is asking Player8 their role, without knowing they have been Blackmailed. So, there are two things here you can get. The first, is that Player8 is the Retributionist (which Investigator might know but can't confirm). Second, your Blackmailer visited them even though they weren't visiting that night; if they were Witched, you now know that there's a Witch that knows a Mafia member.

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Finally, the mentioned changes will also modify the Investigative results of the involved roles to fit with the changes.
For Regular ToS:
+ Your target could be a Lookout, Snooper, or Witch
+ Your target could be a Doctor, Forger, or Serial Killer
+ Your target could be a Falsificator, Vampire, or Jester
For The Coven Expansion:
+ Your target could be a Lookout, Snooper, or Coven Leader
+ Your target could be a Doctor, Forger, Serial Killer, or Potion Master
+ Your target could be a Falsificator, Vampire, Jester, or Hex Master

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What do you think about my suggestions?

- Should the Snooper role have limited uses, or perhaps be unique? Is it too strong/weak? Would this make Lookout claims much less believable and impact the game negatively?

- Would it be viable to fuse Framer and Disguiser into a single Mafia Deception role? Would it be too strong for Falsificators to be able to freely choose a role for their disguise? Should Falsificators be able to disguise as non-Town roles? Is it overpowered or too strong/weak? Is it bad for the game to let Falsificators mess with the Role List upon death alongside a Janitor? Should Falsificators be forced to wait until their disguise is finished to be able to frame people? Should their disguise take two nights instead of one, so that they are more susceptible to an Investigator?

- Would this be a nice QoL change for a Forger? Is it strange that Forgers now share the same Investigavite results as the Doctor and impact the game negatively?
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Re: Framer/Disguiser rework idea + new* Mafia Support role

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:36 pm

This might be somewhat biased but I feel that a Disguiser/Framer combination is not the way to go. Personally for the Framer, I think frames should be permanent until investigated as well as having the ability to frame a player from ALL Town Investigative roles such as Lookout/Tracker. Regarding the Disguiser, I feel I have a great idea regarding it, however I have it as part of an old and terrible mafia rework thread (not my latest one).

I don't understand the Snooper role. It's a weaker Osservatore and I feel that a Mafia LO role should know exactly who visited what instead of how you suggested it. If I didn't read properly, let me know. Thanks :)
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Re: Framer/Disguiser rework idea + new* Mafia Support role

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:53 am

Tl;dr - dont read it, i gave it a glimpse and its pee pee poo poo
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Re: Framer/Disguiser rework idea + new* Mafia Support role

Postby azurillia » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:43 am

Well isn't this same with DragonClaw's Framer?
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