azurillia wrote:This sound so dumb and awesome at the same time
WE can use this ability while noone is jailed or rb'ed to create confusion, amazing design
Lol I like the idea; improve the whole thread
azurillia wrote:yeah whatever it looks good
change the name to mobster or racketeer, these fit better to the role function
remove rb immunity and make this ability function same with janitor/forger (at night) ; when mafia performs a kill let this role replace the death announcement with something else.
because vigi and vet doesn't have a death note, death notes should be removed from entire maf team (NK needs a buff anyway)
dota2reporter wrote:Abilities: During the night, choose a Town Killing or Neutral Killing role.
[Vigilante, Veteran, Jailor, Serial Killer, Arsonist, Werewolf]
Attributes: The next day, the Mafia kill would appear to have been done by the role you've chosen.
You have 3 charges.
Death notes are turned off when using the ability.
Goal: Mafia Goal
Investigator Results: idk
just something which i randomly came up with, it isnt really aimed at ranked, more at all any or maybe custom
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
azurillia wrote:Gooose26 wrote:Death notifications mean very little in the game of mafia and I would argue that they should be removed entirely. Nevertheless, I think this role wouldn't hold up against more powerful mafia roles like Janitor and Consigliere. I don't think death notifications are really a good mechanic to play with.
Death notifications actually favors Town
This role is as powerful as Janitor
JacksonVirgo wrote:azurillia wrote:Gooose26 wrote:Death notifications mean very little in the game of mafia and I would argue that they should be removed entirely. Nevertheless, I think this role wouldn't hold up against more powerful mafia roles like Janitor and Consigliere. I don't think death notifications are really a good mechanic to play with.
Death notifications actually favors Town
This role is as powerful as Janitor
Agreed, it's as powerful as Janitor but more or less situational.
On the other side of the argument, this could be easy to read as Town.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:azurillia wrote:Gooose26 wrote:Death notifications actually favors Town
This role is as powerful as JanitorJacksonVirgo wrote:Agreed, it's as powerful as Janitor but more or less situational.
On the other side of the argument, this could be easy to read as Town.
Can you guys give me a more in-depth explanation as to how this is so powerful, in your opinions? I simply don't see it.
Death notifications definitely favor town, but they don't do it in a way that I would consider balanced. Obviously, it's important to distinguish an in-game death and a player who just left the game early, but outside of this small exception, death notifications are just easy ways to mess with killers. For starters, it singles out the Neutral Killing for little to no reason, and there's nothing the NKs can do about it. That leads to many things, like improved investigative results, later in the game. Furthermore, it makes the Town Killing position 100% impossible to claim, which all around means that evil killers don't have a go-to claim in general. This is completely unfair because it comes as a basis to the game, rather than a player mechanic or anything along those lines.
This role does have the ability to give mafia killers some claimspace, but it's very hard to predict. I would sooner consider this role to be a Lookout/Tracker hardcounter before considering it to be a viable pick, even though a Lookout would be suspicious of the multiple visits on the TK kill given most scenarios. Also, I can't think of really any reason you would want to "disguise" yourself as an NK. NKs are evil, and they go through the same minority problems that mafia do, so you aren't really fixing the problem at hand by becoming an NK.
JacksonVirgo wrote:I feel it's a powerful mechanic if done right, this role needs some tweaks (not sure exactly where) and it might be very powerful. But the strong mechanic here in question is quite situational in it's current form.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:I feel it's a powerful mechanic if done right, this role needs some tweaks (not sure exactly where) and it might be very powerful. But the strong mechanic here in question is quite situational in it's current form.
Well, that goes back into the idea I was speaking about before. If death announcements is a broken system that should never have been implemented in the first place, then there's no way to make a balanced role that manipulates it. This was something that we could see with the old Disguiser, who completely destroyed the meta of the game because it manipulated a broken system, the last wills. Sure, it was great how the Disguiser could limit confirmability by destroying death roles and messing with names, but at the end of the day, it played with untouchable mechanics.
We could argue all day about the balanced pros that this role could bring to the table if we were to implement it, but we first need to come to an agreement on whether or not there are unbalanced cons getting in the way. Death announcements are broken, and therefore this concept is doomed to fail.
JacksonVirgo wrote:I agree that a role shouldn't be able to manipulate this, reason why I suggested a global passive in which all kills be grouped into kill types such as {Vigilante, Veteran, Mafia faction kill} etc. But those who replied commented it being 'too complex' which I personally disagree with but yeah.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:I agree that a role shouldn't be able to manipulate this, reason why I suggested a global passive in which all kills be grouped into kill types such as {Vigilante, Veteran, Mafia faction kill} etc. But those who replied commented it being 'too complex' which I personally disagree with but yeah.
"They appeared to have committed suicide." (Player leaves)
"They appeared to have been murdered." (Player dies)
If you go any further than this, then you've stepped into a dirty puddle full of town-buffing confirmability where killers have to be afraid to kill because Lookout and Tracker will instantly ruin their day for little to no fault of their own.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:Gooose26 wrote:...
Actually I love that, but I would rather have one more for rampaged attacks, something similar to:
"They appear to have been slaughtered." (for a rampaged kill)
Thoughts?
My thought is that rampage killing is extremely swingy as a whole. Anybody that can kill an assortment of people based on uncontrollable circumstances shouldn't even be considered.
I have considered that maybe it should be changed to a system where each killer would be given a special name or something of the sort so that each killer would be able to build their own claim separately from each other. The message would look something like this:
"Player A died last night. They were killed by Killer 1."
"Player B also died last night. They were killed by Killer 2."
"Player C also died last night. They were killed by Killer 2."
Then we could also have fun giving ourselves killer aliases as well.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
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