Godfather/Mafioso Rework for Tactical Killing

[azurillia]

I accept the fact that the current mafia killing version in TG is OK due to Town abilities. Jailor can jail a solo Mafia Killing role or an Escort perform the same function while they find the other fellow Mafia members. I think that LO and Tracker is fine but seeing a vigilante/bg claim visiting a dead person (or investigate result) is dead over for the killer.
They put this system to TG but I think both of GF and Mafioso suck right now. Because there is nothing special about their abilities. Godfatfer can just wait to get suspected then throw his fake will while being Immune at the same time, while Mafioso "shadowing" his fellow Mafia members by copying their abilities and creating extra chaos. The truth is GF lacks the ability of persisting in games because all they do is like I said before, sitting and wait to get lynched. Mafioso is simply using the copycat role, which is banned from ToS because you can't copy someone else's abilities every night in a role game like this. That would create extra chaos; Copying Consort one time, then copying Blackmailer one time can be devastating since if two people claim RB'd at D3 or D4 the Town would know that one of them has been lying. Same concept goes for Witch for usual; if you manage to control an evildoer to team up with them the next day the Witch just say that they were controlled to give a signal to their control victim. Of course, evildoers do not claim controlled because of Tracker/Lookout. Same system applies for blackmailing; D2, one blackmail; D3, two blackmails. Current Spy can call out these visits (but I am ignoring this unbalanced pos role) but for real this isn't something that Town can't figure out because playing both too passive or too aggressive usually lend up to Mafia win, and some lock points they need to lynch the "most suspicious person".



Role Name: Godfather

Role Alignment: Mafia Head

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: Basic
Unique
Detection Immunity (special)

Abilities: Steal investigation feedbacks from a person.

Attributes:
─ Your target will be informed that their feedback result(s) were stolen.
─ You will know who did your victim target that Night.
─ You may instead perform the factional Mafia kill.
─ You will appear as 'Sheriff' to investigation roles at the Night you kill.
─ You can talk with other Mafia members at Night.

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is suspicious.
Your target is not suspicious. (If they kill that Night)
Investigator - Bodyguard, Crusader, Godfather, Arsonist
Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, Poisoner (If they kill that Night)
Consigliere - Your target is your boss. They must be the Godfather.





Role Name: Mafioso

Role Alignment: Mafia Deception

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None
Unique

Abilities: Throw a flashbang to a person at Night to force them to visit themselves.

Attributes:
─ Your flashbang doesn't actually kill but it triggers every action that would kill. (check notes for explanation)
─ Your target will not know that they were under flashbang.
─ You will force your target to visit themselves for that Night. (check notes for explanation)
─ You will be informed about your target's Defense.
─ You will also remove your target's auto-vest if they have one.
─ You may instead perform a factional Mafia killing.
─ You may only throw your flashbangs 2 times.
─ You can talk with other Mafia members at Night.

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is suspicious.
Investigator - Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Pirate, Ambusher
Consigliere - Your target owns a bunch of flashbangs. They must be a Mafioso.



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Notes:
─ Godfather simply steals a feedback from target (etc. Investigator, Sheriff, Spy's bug result, maybe fellow Mafia members like Consigliere, Witch and more) you will get the feedback instead and your target will be informed. The Godfather will also know who did Town Investigate role target that Night.
─ All other roles' feedback are unaffected.
─ Hustler is removed. Janitor can function 100 way better than Hustler and the role itself is actually worse than current Framer; as a result, I moved its ability to GF.
─ Godfather is like I stated before, is "too easy to play and fake as a member of an evildoer team". The Detection Immunity is now limited while they are attacking.
─ Mafioso acts like a trickster Witch now, they check their target's Defense and force them to visit themselves for twice only. They won't learn their target's role while controlling, so I also gave them an ability to sweep their target's Defense, which will help them to figure out. It is still a deadout if they hit a Werewolf with a flashbang at even-Nights.
─ If Mafioso manages to use a flashbang against a Consort or Escort, they won't get a message about someone tried to roleblock them.
─ Mafioso flashbangs can waste Doctor and Bodyguard's one time selfvisits.
─ Mafioso's flashbang acts like a fake-attack; if their target was protected by a Bodyguard, both Bodyguard and Mafioso will die, since Mafioso's visit count as harmful visit.

[JacksonVirgo]

Um, I don't understand what this would change. Removing results wouldn't even do much, practically a roleblock that doesn't roleblock. And what's even the mafioso role?

[azurillia]

Um, I don't understand what this would change. Removing results wouldn't even do much, practically a roleblock that doesn't roleblock. And what's even the mafioso role?

I explained at Notes; Godfather sits like a turt whole game with only a simple BG claim. They steal the results if their target is a Town Investigate role.

Mafioso is a Witch that forces people to self target two times while checking their Defense. 'Roleblock' term is too weak, it is more than a roleblock but it only counters TI roles.

[JacksonVirgo]

Um, I don't understand what this would change. Removing results wouldn't even do much, practically a roleblock that doesn't roleblock. And what's even the mafioso role?

I explained at Notes; Godfather sits like a turt whole game with only a simple BG claim. They steal the results if their target is a Town Investigate role.

Mafioso is a Witch that forces people to self target two times while checking their Defense. 'Roleblock' term is too weak, it is more than a roleblock but it only counters TI roles.

Making Mafioso a weaker consort but for TI only, ugh. And only reash GF claims BG to begin with is either laziness or an investigator has checked you/is in game. I never claim BG as GF and even if I did, it's not the roles fault and it doesn't need changing.

EDIT: If you're really that scared of a TI role to claim outside your results, maybe learn to grow some balls or perhaps kill the investigator. Mafia hardly wins with 'safe' plays, be risky and kill targets that are confirmed and that pose any kind of threat to your Mafia. Without killing your claim-space of course

[azurillia]

Making Mafioso a weaker consort but for TI only, ugh. And only reash GF claims BG to begin with is either laziness or an investigator has checked you/is in game. I never claim BG as GF and even if I did, it's not the roles fault and it doesn't need changing.

This version of mafioso can counter almost every Town role except for Transporter, and they can safely distract the Town. I made flashbangs silent after you wrote this.

EDIT: If you're really that scared of a TI role to claim outside your results, maybe learn to grow some balls or perhaps kill the investigator. Mafia hardly wins with 'safe' plays, be risky and kill targets that are confirmed and that pose any kind of threat to your Mafia. Without killing your claim-space of course

Look at Framer; as a Mafia you can't predict who they gonna investigate but you may know who will investigate. Godfather simply takes this role and can steal resluts effectively (and these results as not valuable as Consigliere's and Sheriff result isn't that useful anyway) the only unbalanced thing about this role is they can watch a Lookout and this may get overridden by adding a Mafia Lookout role (Watcher)
All roles should get a priority get killed of course; but in some situtations it is better to keep investigator role busy while killing TP

[JacksonVirgo]

I have no idea how you consider these are good suggestions at all.

[BasicFourLife]

They already exist. Adios to your shitty roles!

[azurillia]

I have no idea how you consider these are good suggestions at all.

Did you ever play in a TG simulation? You created a thread and a post asking about this and I am gonna reply these here; Tactical killing isn't something that can be considered as "new" and I just said I didn't like the roles. Watcher has a higher priority than this because the current Mafia killing system isn't bad, it is just upgradeable. You also asked about that role/killing pattern's approvement by Devs; That link I posted before is getting updated and before I quit the game they were still talking about that change. I wrote and explained everything that a player would ask.

@BasicFourLife the last time I was in a TG session with you, you somehow went crazy and raged like a child who is being mad to teacher for getting a low grade; clearly you didn't read the whole thread like you were doing a long time ago. I didn't surprised that you still talk like a peasant who just got out of village prison. Do not write anything related or quoted to me again. Have a good night sleepie

[Brilliand]

Tactical killing isn't something that can be considered as "new"

Anything that cannot be considered as "new" cannot be considered one of your suggestions. I would interpret Jackson as only referring to the new parts.

[Descender]

Are these just fm roles repackaged into tos?
Gf dont need no change
Add tactical
Mafioso does but dont just do dat

[Soulshade55r]

just make Mafioso mafia amne brah

[azurillia]

Tactical killing isn't something that can be considered as "new"

Anything that cannot be considered as "new" cannot be considered one of your suggestions. I would interpret Jackson as only referring to the new parts.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=103671&p=3289338#p3289338

Did you see his thread?

When this was first created he mentioned the attacking pattern rework as "something new" (clearly he changed it) now they are talking about ambusher should be in classic vb vb.

Along with this, I just said my opinions, like it or not. GF needs a rework in TG and it would be pretty much like this. I don't know about mafioso one;

@Soulshade55r the Mafioso's current ability must fit to its investigator result so nope :/
maybe make disguiser as mafia amne?

[JacksonVirgo]

I somewhat understand it now but this still doesn't change my opinion one bit