Yemac wrote:Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.
Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.
Google wrote:trans is more of a town protective tbh
UzayAltay wrote:Slinet trans solve Nothing .
You just need an Escort and a spy , and You are confirmed as trans again .
Unless You would Suggest make roleblocked message silent , too . Or rework spy .
I think remove self-trans is The correct solution , Maybe with addition half-feedback ( make it much More claimable , especially at Coven ) , or make Trans unprotectable by any means ( TP /JailorJK can still target trans , but trans wont gain any defense ) . Maybe even We can add that trans cant trans Same Player twice in A row . But removing modification fully make it too swingy : Either instaconfirmed , or mislynch , very similiar to medium , even worse Than that .
UzayAltay wrote:Slinet trans solve Nothing .
You just need an Escort and a spy , and You are confirmed as trans again .
Unless You would Suggest make roleblocked message silent , too . Or rework spy .
I think remove self-trans is The correct solution , Maybe with addition half-feedback ( make it much More claimable , especially at Coven ) , or make Trans unprotectable by any means ( TP /JailorJK can still target trans , but trans wont gain any defense ) . Maybe even We can add that trans cant trans Same Player twice in A row . But removing modification fully make it too swingy : Either instaconfirmed , or mislynch , very similiar to medium , even worse Than that .
kyuss420 wrote: in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.
This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.
So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...
SwampRabbit wrote:kyuss420 wrote: in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.
This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.
So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...
Quick tip to the coven people who did not figure this out--have one of your own mafia LIE and claim to be transported each night when hypno is acting as trans. duh
I agree completely that there is nothing about transporter that needs to be changed or nerfed. A good trans can win the game for town. A bad one loses it more quickly. I don't even know how many games I have played--more than 10,000--and I see bad trans cause towns to lose more than I see good ones who help towns win. I don't even know the number of times I see transporters moving themselves with another confirmed town role (such as jailor or revealed mayor) near end of game rather than moving a confirmed town with a suspected evil. I have no idea what thought process (none apparently) that any transporter uses when he moves only himself or moves himself with a confirmed town.
For the people who think it needs to be restricted because they can't win against it when evil, all I can say is to learn math. Attack low profile targets that will not be protected by tp or the transporter, and when evils gain majority vote (and in ranked games, that is d3 unless evils have died), vote the transporter out. So many people playing evil roles forget that when you have more evil people alive than town people alive, you just vote out pesky roles like transporter and jailor. When evils have the majority stop pretending to be town and vote like the evil you are and lynch the trans, etc.
Brilliand wrote:Transporter has a wider variance than most roles - a good Transporter benefits the town far more than a good Doctor, while a bad Transporter harms the town far more than a bad Doctor.
I'm a little surprised to hear that "bad" transporters still show up in high-level ranked, but I guess that makes sense; good transporters aren't exactly rare outside of Ranked either.
Still, I think changing the Transporter to be less powerful in skilled hands and more powerful (that is less detrimental) in unskilled hands would be a good thing. It has to go both ways, though - not a straight nerf or a straight buff.
Venusupreme wrote:SwampRabbit wrote:kyuss420 wrote: in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.
This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.
So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...
Quick tip to the coven people who did not figure this out--have one of your own mafia LIE and claim to be transported each night when hypno is acting as trans. duh
I agree completely that there is nothing about transporter that needs to be changed or nerfed. A good trans can win the game for town. A bad one loses it more quickly. I don't even know how many games I have played--more than 10,000--and I see bad trans cause towns to lose more than I see good ones who help towns win. I don't even know the number of times I see transporters moving themselves with another confirmed town role (such as jailor or revealed mayor) near end of game rather than moving a confirmed town with a suspected evil. I have no idea what thought process (none apparently) that any transporter uses when he moves only himself or moves himself with a confirmed town.
For the people who think it needs to be restricted because they can't win against it when evil, all I can say is to learn math. Attack low profile targets that will not be protected by tp or the transporter, and when evils gain majority vote (and in ranked games, that is d3 unless evils have died), vote the transporter out. So many people playing evil roles forget that when you have more evil people alive than town people alive, you just vote out pesky roles like transporter and jailor. When evils have the majority stop pretending to be town and vote like the evil you are and lynch the trans, etc.
I've played over 3,000 games myself, and I see a competent Transporter win games for the Town that they deserved to lose far more than I see the opposite. What mode do you usually play? What you described doesn't sound like the Ranked mode that I know...
kyuss420 wrote:Thing is, that competent trans would likely be competant at any given town role, if they were vigi, they would have shot the mafia, instead of transporting them, if they were TI, they would have outed the maf instead of transporting them. If the trans knows how to play as maf, then youre going to run into problems because they will counter the plays that they know you are going to make, so yea they should be a problem for maf in high level ranked... but they should be a problem for maf no matter what role they get at that level.
Also claiming that you were transed, as mafia, in a hypno game, isnt the best idea becuase if the hypno dies early you get lynched early, but yea, Ive seen many more bad transporters wreck town, than good ones winning it
Yemac wrote:Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.
Voriki wrote:Yemac wrote:Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.
I would enjoy the strategic decision that you can't recreate the same transport pairs.(ofcourse it needs to programmable, and properly communicated to the transported when making every decision, that it is unique).
Once you have transported Player 4 and 7, you cannot ever transport them again with each other, but you can do 4 with 6, and 6 with 7(on a different night ofcourse).
And then 6 can't be transported along 4 and 7 anymore either.
Kinda like the thing that often happens in Freaky Friday type situations. I know they did it once in a Stargate episode.
Yemac wrote:Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.
Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.
kyuss420 wrote:Yemac wrote:Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.
Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.
transporter transes a vet = dead trans
transporter transes WW = dead trans
transporter transes dusa = dead trans
transporter transes Pest = dead trans
transporter transes themself with mafia = dead TP
transporter transes TP with mafia = dead trans
So if trans knows a mafia, trans has 2 options, save their own ass, or save an important town roles ass... up to mafia to decide what hes going to do and target accordingly.
Also if trans uses an obvious evil as a shield, he runs the risk of being shot by a vigi
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