Brilliand wrote:It seems a bit weak to me? I'm having trouble coming up with situations where this role's information would be useful.
ak521 wrote:You need to add a more reliable source of information.
What if the target is jailed?
What if the target is transported?
Shouldn't there be no notification if there was no interaction (similar to the Lookout)?
For this weak of a role, why have it so hard to confirm? I can see this is a buff for evil roles, but for a Town Investigative, it is not logical to make it a quick-lynch claim.
Can they target themselves? What will happen..?
Furthermore, if one target is the Veteran, it only increases chances of the Sleuth's chance of hitting them.
I'd suggest a single notification if either, or both of the targets appear suspicious (similar to sheriff).
JacksonVirgo wrote:This role seems to be situational at best. Gets weaker with each and every day.
Let us math, yay!
TLDR;
Assuming all 15 players can visit every day and two players die each day/night (Mafia, SK, lynch)
N1 - 14.28% chance either target visited the other at any point in game.
N2 - 30.9% chance either target visited the other at any point in game.
N3 - 50.9% chance either target visited the other at any point in game.
Explanation.
On Night 1. You have a 7.14% (1/14) chance that T1 (target 1) will visit your T2 (target 2) in addition to the same probability in reverse. The probability of either one of them to visit the other is 14.28% (2/14). Fairly low chance but if you do get this off, it's got some semi-direct information.
Night 2. There is a 8.33% (1/12) chance now that T1 will visit T2 and vice versa. Adding the probability that they visited on previous nights makes the probability of this role finding a visit at 30.9%. That's at Night 2, making results more and more useless.
Night 3. There is a 10% chance (1/10) that T1 and/or T2 visit each other. Making the total 50.9% that they see a visit. Do you see the problem here?
JacksonVirgo wrote:I see where you are coming from now but it is still fairly situational.
EDIT 1: It won't even stop most fake claims to be completely honest. It won't threaten a Vigilante/Veteran claim as Mafioso/Godfather. Consort hangs onto Escorts anyway, the same as Consigliere's claim Investigator majority of the time. Framer and Disguiser can claim any role without much issue because they can visit without much happening. Neutral Killings would be hit HARD with this however and thus it's too strong against them but it would make this role a kill priority.
Town Protectives are already really easy to claim and they're powerful roles so it's a fine balance. This would make Town Protectives confirmable early and that's terrible.
JacksonVirgo wrote:From my perspective, Town doesn't need ANY more roles at this current point in time. However, evils need one or two extra roles (probably in Mafia) to balance the game a bit more.
ak521 wrote:I do like the idea, but it literally cripples the evil's role claim space. It'd be unreasonable to add to ToS because it's insanely hard to win as evil as is (in current meta). This really won't help.. and sure, an evil can claim Sleuth but it does more bad than good to balance the game.
ImposterK wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:From my perspective, Town doesn't need ANY more roles at this current point in time. However, evils need one or two extra roles (probably in Mafia) to balance the game a bit more.
I could argue that the Town Killing and Town Protective alignments do need more roles... Also, adding more roles creates more unique gameplay so it doesn't hurt to add more.
JacksonVirgo wrote:ImposterK wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:From my perspective, Town doesn't need ANY more roles at this current point in time. However, evils need one or two extra roles (probably in Mafia) to balance the game a bit more.
I could argue that the Town Killing and Town Protective alignments do need more roles... Also, adding more roles creates more unique gameplay so it doesn't hurt to add more.
I see where you are coming from but considering Town wins majority of the games, any town role added should either make it easy for evils to use against town or easy to fake claim. The main problem I see is that evils lose claim space FAST, too fast than they probably should. Town should never be able to properly confirm themselves outside of how they are playing (exception being Mayor, maybe the Town Power alignment if you like that idea).
Literally claiming any Town Support role, except maybe Medium, is complete suicide because they are ALL confirmable, especially if a Spy is in game. Town Protective claims can work but not if there is a Lookout where they can see ALL Town Protective roles visit the TP/LO call and confirm them all. If Town should get more roles, the current roles must be reworked so they cannot be confirmed that easily, like christ. Mayor should really be the only self-confirming role in the game.
So no, I don't think Town should get new roles. However that of course is my opinion and I may be biased so, why do you think Town Killing and Town Protective need more roles? And why do you disagree with me (if you still do of course). Lemme know, thanks lol
JacksonVirgo wrote:First and foremost, knowledge is and always will be Mafia’s strongest asset and anything that takes this away from them cannot be considered. If more Town roles are added into the game, they also cannot be solely for the higher chance of Town winning, it is unnecessary and completely unbalanced. Instead, roles need to be created that are good and useful to play (so none of that, having a role that is a burden to their alignment blasphemy) but also allow Mafia to work around or even abuse solely with information rather than specific role abilities.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Town Killing roles are hard to create without replicating one of the twenty odd killing roles in game already in some capacity. Seriously though, another isn’t really needed regardless that only two TKs are in game.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Town does not need any more roles or buffs in order to make them stronger. They have the highest win rate out of all factions, no need to make that even worse.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it's a good role but it's a bit powerful for Town when they have the highest winrate, ya know?
SparkingJayYT wrote:Just one question, are you able to see if an alive player and a dead player have visited each other? (After them being dead for at least 1 night)
Brilliand wrote:I still think that this role is too weak, JacksonVirgo thinks it's too strong. This amuses me.
This may require taking some statistics on "what would have happened if a Sleuth had been in the game".
(If I'm right and it's too weak, then SparklingJay's idea - allowing the role to check the dead - would be a good way to buff it.)
Brilliand wrote:I still think that this role is too weak, JacksonVirgo thinks it's too strong. This amuses me.
JacksonVirgo wrote:Brilliand wrote:I still think that this role is too weak, JacksonVirgo thinks it's too strong. This amuses me.
Nah, I just don't think Town should have any roles that could up their chances of winning lol.
ImposterK wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:Brilliand wrote:I still think that this role is too weak, JacksonVirgo thinks it's too strong. This amuses me.
Nah, I just don't think Town should have any roles that could up their chances of winning lol.
What's the point of a Town role that doesn't help the Town?
JacksonVirgo wrote:ImposterK wrote:JacksonVirgo wrote:Brilliand wrote:I still think that this role is too weak, JacksonVirgo thinks it's too strong. This amuses me.
Nah, I just don't think Town should have any roles that could up their chances of winning lol.
What's the point of a Town role that doesn't help the Town?
More town roles don't need to be added, that's what I have been trying to say. Yeesh.
EDIT: I realize now I sound like a complete douche, apologies
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