Is VFR ever fair?

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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby Tharok » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:10 pm

Why wouldn't I push you? People who call out randomly are always the most suspicious.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kyuss420 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:04 am

Tharok wrote:Why wouldn't I push you? People who call out randomly are always the most suspicious.


How is it random, when 5 town roles are known, and youve got better than a 50% shot at pushing on an evil?

Or late game when theres 2 mafia left and 4 people havent claimed or given any info? You just dont ask those 4 players for a role claim, or what? Wait until mafia needs 1 day to gain majority, and then mislynch?

I dont see many mafia or NKs randomly calling out tho.... perhaps mafia, if they have the numbers to vote, but even then, its not random who theyre calling out
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby Tharok » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:26 am

What are you talking about? How is it not random when you literally don't know for a fact if the person is evil?
"Better than a 50% chance" still is not 100 and still leaves you with the possibility of random lynching a town member.
Furthermore, again by your own admittance, you are describing "an optimal situation", something which is far from the norm in this game.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby BlastingOff » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:01 am

Tharok wrote:What are you talking about? How is it not random when you literally don't know for a fact if the person is evil?
"Better than a 50% chance" still is not 100 and still leaves you with the possibility of random lynching a town member.
Furthermore, again by your own admittance, you are describing "an optimal situation", something which is far from the norm in this game.


I wouldn't call VFRing the dude that has not even said a word yet very random
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby Tharok » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:04 am

It does not have very much to do with the game itself and is not really based on any sort of information. That sounds random to me.
Statistically, someone who has been quiet is just as likely to be a town member as they are someone who is evil. The only evidence anyone has one way or the other is anecdotal and hardly concrete.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:54 am

Tharok wrote:What are you talking about? How is it not random when you literally don't know for a fact if the person is evil?
"Better than a 50% chance" still is not 100 and still leaves you with the possibility of random lynching a town member.
Furthermore, again by your own admittance, you are describing "an optimal situation", something which is far from the norm in this game.


Well, its a game of deduction for town. Having 5 knowns (out of 9) puts you in an optimal position. That is the information VFR is based on. Known roles wont be pushed. If you are unknown, you are fair game for lynching at any time, especially with no will. Not claiming puts town at a disadvantage, especially when youre not that important of a role. If jailor/mayor is known and is pushing on someone, theres no reason to not vote with them.

I play every role I get to the most optimal plays i know, I never randomly target with any role, and always have a plan of 3-4 nights in advance, which can change depending on daily events.

Saying VFR isnt fair, is like saying sheriff checking someone quiet isnt fair.... or 2 sheriffs whispering each other, so they can check 2 targets in 1 night isnt fair. Or sheriff NOT checking a LO claim that gave info isnt fair. Why should i waste a night checking someone quiet, when i can force them to show a will during the day? Will is good? great! I can check 1 of the other unknowns at night... either way, a townie is dieing that night and theres 1 less vote next day
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby BasicFourLife » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:44 am

Tharok wrote:What are you talking about? How is it not random when you literally don't know for a fact if the person is evil?
"Better than a 50% chance" still is not 100 and still leaves you with the possibility of random lynching a town member.
Furthermore, again by your own admittance, you are describing "an optimal situation", something which is far from the norm in this game.

Are you fucking dumby dumb dumb, you cant rely on 100% chances not to mention putting people on stand gives you more time for the entire day. If you don’t use all 3 trials each day, you’re hard throwing as Town. Not to mention, scumreading is a thing but your brain is too dumby to comprehend.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby DanBarna » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:18 am

VFR works but takes out all the fun out of the game.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby Google » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:36 pm

DanBarna wrote:VFR works but takes out all the fun out of the game.

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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kyuss420 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:21 am

DanBarna wrote:VFR works but takes out all the fun out of the game.



I dont find it fun when town does absolutely nothing for 2 days, because the sheriff died and ''we cant proove anything'' or the sheriff actually finds someone sus but ''he could be exe, saying you found someone sus doesnt proove anything''

meanwhile it gets to 4v4 or 3v3 and town start screaming for town to vote (what town??)

I mean its a game of deduction for town, and a game of deception for evils, the whole point of the game is asking for claims to find who is lieing, why wouldnt i start playing day 2??
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:51 pm

If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:58 am

kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:42 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol


That's how you can deal with vfr ;) But yeah, small off topic
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:47 am

kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol


That's how you can deal with vfr ;) But yeah, small off topic

I agree, I've destroyed town at one point by getting all Mafia to claim one sub-alignment
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kyuss420 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:44 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol


That's how you can deal with vfr ;) But yeah, small off topic

I agree, I've destroyed town at one point by getting all Mafia to claim one sub-alignment


At least they had a claim tho :P
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:28 am

kyuss420 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol


That's how you can deal with vfr ;) But yeah, small off topic

I agree, I've destroyed town at one point by getting all Mafia to claim one sub-alignment


At least they had a claim tho :P


You want to say that people from your Mafia don't claim during vfr? So sad...
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:01 am

kosmo16 wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol


That's how you can deal with vfr ;) But yeah, small off topic

I agree, I've destroyed town at one point by getting all Mafia to claim one sub-alignment


At least they had a claim tho :P


You want to say that people from your Mafia don't claim during vfr? So sad...


Yah, Im saying people who dont like VFR, are the guys who dont have a claim ready when theyre evil, and their whole gameplan is to remain silent for 6 days and hope the TIs dont check them ever. Asking someone for a role is ''random lynching'' unless youre a TI apparently.

I like the whole ''you have no reason to be sus'' arguement. Personally Im sus of everyone day 2 and try to get people to talk. People give away a lot of information without even realising theyre doing it.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:23 am

kyuss420 wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have 4 good evils against average town they can usually carry by creating chaos.

Why'd ya bump this? Lol


That's how you can deal with vfr ;) But yeah, small off topic

I agree, I've destroyed town at one point by getting all Mafia to claim one sub-alignment


At least they had a claim tho :P


You want to say that people from your Mafia don't claim during vfr? So sad...


Yah, Im saying people who dont like VFR, are the guys who dont have a claim ready when theyre evil, and their whole gameplan is to remain silent for 6 days and hope the TIs dont check them ever. Asking someone for a role is ''random lynching'' unless youre a TI apparently.

I like the whole ''you have no reason to be sus'' arguement. Personally Im sus of everyone day 2 and try to get people to talk. People give away a lot of information without even realising theyre doing it.


I used to posting Mafia strategies on this forum. I wonder if anyone used them.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby Tharok » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:09 pm

kyuss420 wrote:Well, its a game of deduction for town. Having 5 knowns (out of 9) puts you in an optimal position. That is the information VFR is based on. Known roles wont be pushed. If you are unknown, you are fair game for lynching at any time, especially with no will. Not claiming puts town at a disadvantage, especially when youre not that important of a role. If jailor/mayor is known and is pushing on someone, theres no reason to not vote with them.


It is a game of deduction for everybody. If you have five knowns out of 9, then town has a majority, rendering VFR unnecessary. VFR should only ever even be considered if town is in a bad spot, not if they have majority and are working well in tandem. Especially depending on what exactly those 5 roles are, town would have almost no chance of losing at that point and might not even need to vote at all. The point here is that basing your entire game on, and thus relying on, wills and other meta stuff like that is just a crutch that actually takes away the deductive part of the game. Furthermore, in a scenario like that, in which a confirmed town has a majority, then there is no putting town at a disadvantage because the town is running things so smoothly that the evils have allowed such a thing to happen. Yes, there is, Jailor maybe has more information that may be informing his decisions, but Mayor knows basically nothing. Mayor starting a vote makes absolutely no sense, Mayor should be the final person to vote someone up not the first.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:54 am

Tharok wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:Well, its a game of deduction for town. Having 5 knowns (out of 9) puts you in an optimal position. That is the information VFR is based on. Known roles wont be pushed. If you are unknown, you are fair game for lynching at any time, especially with no will. Not claiming puts town at a disadvantage, especially when youre not that important of a role. If jailor/mayor is known and is pushing on someone, theres no reason to not vote with them.


It is a game of deduction for everybody. If you have five knowns out of 9, then town has a majority, rendering VFR unnecessary. VFR should only ever even be considered if town is in a bad spot, not if they have majority and are working well in tandem. Especially depending on what exactly those 5 roles are, town would have almost no chance of losing at that point and might not even need to vote at all. The point here is that basing your entire game on, and thus relying on, wills and other meta stuff like that is just a crutch that actually takes away the deductive part of the game. Furthermore, in a scenario like that, in which a confirmed town has a majority, then there is no putting town at a disadvantage because the town is running things so smoothly that the evils have allowed such a thing to happen. Yes, there is, Jailor maybe has more information that may be informing his decisions, but Mayor knows basically nothing. Mayor starting a vote makes absolutely no sense, Mayor should be the final person to vote someone up not the first.


OK Boomer,

So If I was evil and remained silent for 4 days while killing off all the TIs, there would be absolutely no reason to ask me for my role. And If you did ask, and I said ''Its too early'' or ''why me'' It would be totally unfair to vote me to force a claim.

Thats pretty much what youre saying....

Im actually very interested in what you consider ''the deductive part'' of the game, as you think reading wills and ticking off a role list is meta stuff. I mean, to be able to deduce anything, you need information, and you seem very against pushing people for information.

Seems you just give up as town, as soon as the TIs are dead, or hope that TKs or TPs randomly kill the remaining evils. But I guess you classic noobs arent used to fast games with evils scoring 2 or 3 kills per night, where a seemingly winning majority can swing around in 1 night.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:31 am

If you have ever been in a game with 15 very good and very experienced players with thousands of games. Having 5/9 knowns is often at D3/4 and it is gg Town won end of story. Games are often solved D2 or D3.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:37 am

kosmo16 wrote:If you have ever been in a game with 15 very good and very experienced players with thousands of games. Having 5/9 knowns is often at D3/4 and it is gg Town won end of story. Games are often solved D2 or D3.


Yeah, Town is way too overpowered especially with meta's like the D1 and the VFR meta. Honestly it isn't even the two meta's themselves that are the problem, it's the sheer confirmability of majority of town roles and it's atrocious.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:48 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have ever been in a game with 15 very good and very experienced players with thousands of games. Having 5/9 knowns is often at D3/4 and it is gg Town won end of story. Games are often solved D2 or D3.


Yeah, Town is way too overpowered especially with meta's like the D1 and the VFR meta. Honestly it isn't even the two meta's themselves that are the problem, it's the sheer confirmability of majority of town roles and it's atrocious.


Not really. I mentioned games are solved D2 or D3, but you can rarely see vfr, because evils can easily counter it. Games are cancerous, but evils can win.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:56 am

kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have ever been in a game with 15 very good and very experienced players with thousands of games. Having 5/9 knowns is often at D3/4 and it is gg Town won end of story. Games are often solved D2 or D3.


Yeah, Town is way too overpowered especially with meta's like the D1 and the VFR meta. Honestly it isn't even the two meta's themselves that are the problem, it's the sheer confirmability of majority of town roles and it's atrocious.


Not really. I mentioned games are solved D2 or D3, but you can rarely see vfr, because evils can easily counter it. Games are cancerous, but evils can win.

You can't say that the confirmability of nearly every role (especially TS) is good for the game.
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Re: Is VFR ever fair?

Postby kosmo16 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:59 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:If you have ever been in a game with 15 very good and very experienced players with thousands of games. Having 5/9 knowns is often at D3/4 and it is gg Town won end of story. Games are often solved D2 or D3.


Yeah, Town is way too overpowered especially with meta's like the D1 and the VFR meta. Honestly it isn't even the two meta's themselves that are the problem, it's the sheer confirmability of majority of town roles and it's atrocious.


Not really. I mentioned games are solved D2 or D3, but you can rarely see vfr, because evils can easily counter it. Games are cancerous, but evils can win.

You can't say that the confirmability of nearly every role (especially TS) is good for the game.


No, but it doesn't matter that 6 Town are all confirmed, when there are 6 evils who are all confirmed as well.
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