Brilliand wrote:That is what it's defined as.
At the same time, it seems wrong to me that the Mafia is the victim here. When the NK (an anti-mafia player) leaves, the Mafia suffers? That does more to say the game is poorly balanced than to say the NK shouldn't leave, imo.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:Also, there are other instances when neutrals gamethrow and no one cares. For example, if a jester decides to lynch a player in a 1 vs 1 vs 1 scenario, he is gamethrowing unless he has already asked for a lynch. Many people seem to forget that.
Brilliand wrote:I think most people don't understand how a jester is able to force the other players to lynch him in a 1v1v1 scenario, so they're off the hook for not using that strategy.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:But besides, punishing players even more in one gamemode would imply that breaking the rules in other modes is better, while doing that is equally bad no matter where you play.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Also, in the example Iluyan mentioned, the jester can't choose to leave because that's still gamethrowing. Just because they have less chances of winning it doesn't mean they have the right to leave and abandon the evils alone, who were counting on them to gain mayority (even if the jester could betray them later).
Joacgroso wrote:Gamethrowing is intentionally going against your team's win condition, even if that team is just you. This means neutrals can also gamethrow.
It's true that NK roles are alone and must kill other teams to win, but that doesn't mean they have the right to give up, since they are affecting other teams without achieving their own goals.
Duckferno wrote:Same goes for Executioner, once he gets his target lynched he is allowed to leave the game if he wants, imo. It's not game throwing is it now? He completed his goal and doesn't need to help anyone. I'ts called Neutral for a reason.
I woudn't do that, Even though you accomplished your goal, you need to stick untill the end of the game to "collect" your win.
As for the other matters, when these rolls win :
-Jester wins-
It can now only interact with the dead and kill one of the guilty voters, obviously Its only up to the Jester Who he/she wants to kill.
-Executioner wins-
It has already accomplished its goal, but that doesn't really change anything imo. The Executioner is still free to act as he likes. He can choose to side with Town/Evil or stay neutral.
I personally therefore love to win as EXE and making that clear to town after I got my target lynched. I love to then sit back, relax and enjoy my win, while i watch the other factions struggle for survival and victory, while i'l just keep an attitude up ingame that just doesn't give a **** to either faction. This becomes even more fun when your vote becomes a tie-breaker and you get to decide who wins
Duckferno wrote:But the Jester is Neutral, he can team up with who ever he wants to even if he is 100% revealed Jester. Same goes for Executioner, once he gets his target lynched he is allowed to leave the game if he wants, imo. It's not game throwing is it now? He completed his goal and doesn't need to help anyone. I'ts called Neutral for a reason.
Duckferno wrote:I'm saying there is an option to leave the game as executioner once you've done your goal. I don't get how it's "game throwing" if I leave before executing my target.
Duckferno wrote: The executioner is doesn't need to have fun, if they don't like their role they should be able to leave. Who says he's gonna help evils, does it matter if he betrays them later?
It really doesn't imo. If I leave as Executioner would I get reported for Leaving or Game throwing, not the same things. So if you're saying we should be able to report executioners or jesters for leaving/game throwing, what if I was a survivor and left? Would that be game throwing?
Duckferno wrote:Another thing is Neutral Evils aren't in some team. (Unless you create one) Therefore it's not game throwing if they leave nor help evils. As for Jester they don't need to stay in the game and try to win. It's their fault they left, they didn't want the win so it doesn't seem re-portable.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Jesters can team up with whoever they want, unless it makes them lose. In a 1 vs 1 vs 1 scenario, for example, they should always try to get lynched. Voting with another player would end the game, so it would be gamethrowing. If some player refused to vote the jester up, then he would have no chances of winning and then he would be able to vote with someone else. But before that happens, they should always help themselves over anybody else, or else it would be considered gamethrowing.
Okay so what if I was a 100% revealed jester and the only evil left is an Arsonist? Town wouldn't want to lynch me, as that would be game throwing unless it's in their best interest, they would want to kill me. Why should I wait a long time instead of being able to leave. Maybe, like I've said in other forums, instead of getting suspended/banned for leaving just have a reoccurring wait to play the game again, for say 1 hour or 30 minutes(Not an official suspension or ban.) I just don't agree I should be suspended/banned officially from the game for leaving as a certain type of Neutral. But in these types of scenario's the only one it hurts are the person themselves. Sure Mafia might need an extra person but that doesn't effect the game if the Neutral didn't exist.Yes, leaving as a survivor would be game throwing. It doesn't matter if they have a team or not. And of course, everyone should be reported for gamethrowing if they gamethrow, no matter what their role is.
That's different very different though. Town needs to live to see all the evils lose. Mafia needs to see other evils and the town lose. Neutral Killings need to see everyone else lose. Neutrals have a different goal. A unique goal. Does this goal effect town, sure. Does it effect other Evils, sure. Does it effect the Neutral person themselves, probably not. It seems justifiable to leave as a Neutral.As I said before, gamethrowing is intentionally going against your team's win condition, even if that team is just you, so exes or jesters who leave before winning would still be gamethrowers. Jesters do need to stay in the game because otherwise they lose, and therefore they would be gamethrowing. Saying that leaving shouldn't be reportable because they just chose not to win would imply that leaving as town, mafia, or any other faction shouldn't be reportable either, which it should.
MisterAnger wrote:Leaving really is not that bad. There is a reason it takes a lot to get someone banned for leaving, as well it should. Most people are not going to waste their time reporting a Jester for leaving because the only person hurt in that scenario is the Jester.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
If town knows you are a jester, then you only need to wait one more night until either a vigi or the jailor kills you. If town has none of this roles, it means they won't kill you in any way, so you can just wait until a 1 vs 1 vs 1 scenario with the arsonist and a town member. Your chances of winning might be slight, but not null.
Why would people prefer leaving and waiting an hour over staying in the game for 10 minutes?
Duckferno wrote:It's obviously not going to happen in this scenario if they know you're revealed. Like you just said?
Duckferno wrote:So if Jester left after finishing his goal, is that game throwing? So then it's not fair if Jester can leave and not get reported while executioner can. It's the same thing. If a Jester finishes his goal and leave's, you consider that game throwing?
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Rivelle wrote:Aside from neutral benigns, I think neutrals should be able to be reported for gamethrowing as well. Gamethrowing as a neutral should be defined as "going against your role's goal".
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