Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

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Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:54 pm

Name: Wendigo
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Summary: A cannibalistic giant that consumes the flesh of its victims.
Stats: Attack - None, Defense - None (Temporary Invincible)
Specials: Temporary Detection Immunity, Temporary Role Block Immunity
Type: Non-Unique

Sheriff Results (Role Blocking): You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.
Sheriff Results (Consuming): Your target is suspicious!
Investigator Results: N/A
Consigliere Results: Your target consumes the flesh of the deceased. They must be a Wendigo.

Abilities:
- Stalk a player at night.
Attributes:
- If your target is attacked by an evildoer, you will scare off all Town roles visiting your target. Roles with role block immunity are not affected. You will also consume your target, making their role and will unrecognizable. Successfully consuming your target grants you immunity to being indirectly rampaged.
- You temporarily lose detection and role block immunity while consuming a player.
- You will role block your target if they aren’t attacked.
- You are unable to consume on two consecutive nights.
- If you are attacked by a non-Town role for the first time, you will gain temporary invincible defense against all non-Town roles for one night.

Goal: Survive to see the Town lose the game.
Victory Conditions:
- (Current Witch win conditions).

Achievements:
- Man-Eater: Win 1 game as a Wendigo.
- Ghoul: Win 5 games as a Wendigo.
- Cannibal: Win 10 games as a Wendigo.
- Carnivorous: Win 25 games as a Wendigo.
- Fulfilled: Consume the flesh of three players in a single game.
- Bypass: Assist an evildoer in the murder of a Town role that had a Town Protective try to visit them.
- Paralyze: Role block a Jailor or Vigilante attempting to kill an evildoer.
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Brilliand » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:25 pm

Scaring off all Town roles when your target is attacked is awkward, since most Town roles have higher action priority than kills do.

If your target is being Transported, do you scare off the Transporter?

Or maybe the Mafioso is getting witched... onto himself... and also roleblocked by an Escort. Does the Wendigo shoo the escort away, allowing him to kill himself when he otherwise wouldn't?

If you visit a Doctor who self-heals on the same night the Werewolf does, do you scare the doctor off of the self-heal? Or do you die to the rampage because you didn't get to eat the doctor?

It sounds awful hard to implement, though I'm not seeing any paradox here necessarily.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:35 pm

Brilliand wrote:Scaring off all Town roles when your target is attacked is awkward, since most Town roles have higher action priority than kills do.

If your target is being Transported, do you scare off the Transporter?

Or maybe the Mafioso is getting witched... onto himself... and also roleblocked by an Escort. Does the Wendigo shoo the escort away, allowing him to kill himself when he otherwise wouldn't?

If you visit a Doctor who self-heals on the same night the Werewolf does, do you scare the doctor off of the self-heal? Or do you die to the rampage because you didn't get to eat the doctor?

It sounds awful hard to implement, though I'm not seeing any paradox here necessarily.

It has first priority after the Transporter.

The Transporter is not scared off; it has top priority no matter what.

In this situation, the Escort prevented the Mafioso from making a visit, so the ability doesn't trigger.

Self-healing isn't considered a visit, so the Wendigo would gain immunity to the Werewolf's rampage but the Doctor wouldn't be role blocked as the Wendigo would attempt to consume the Doctor. In this situation, nobody dies even though the ability triggered.

I'm not a developer, I honestly wouldn't have an idea how hard this would be too implemented.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Brilliand » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:17 pm

Right now, it sounds like it overrides the Escort some of the time but not all of the time, which could produce some very confusing scenarios.

He needs to either always override the escort (so he has permanent roleblock immunity, and the ability to roleblock the Escort through its immunity) or never override the escort (so if he devours a Bodyguard who was being blocked by an Escort, that Bodyguard is still roleblocked, so he can't also die guarding someone else).
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:47 pm

Brilliand wrote:Right now, it sounds like it overrides the Escort some of the time but not all of the time, which could produce some very confusing scenarios.

He needs to either always override the escort (so he has permanent roleblock immunity, and the ability to roleblock the Escort through its immunity) or never override the escort (so if he devours a Bodyguard who was being blocked by an Escort, that Bodyguard is still roleblocked, so he can't also die guarding someone else).

So I should make the Wendigo's ability act as a role block for Town visitors? This makes it so that the Escort and Transporter are still unaffected while also making it more clear to the player how the mechanic works.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:48 am

DragonClaw66 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:Right now, it sounds like it overrides the Escort some of the time but not all of the time, which could produce some very confusing scenarios.

He needs to either always override the escort (so he has permanent roleblock immunity, and the ability to roleblock the Escort through its immunity) or never override the escort (so if he devours a Bodyguard who was being blocked by an Escort, that Bodyguard is still roleblocked, so he can't also die guarding someone else).

So I should make the Wendigo's ability act as a role block for Town visitors? This makes it so that the Escort and Transporter are still unaffected while also making it more clear to the player how the mechanic works.


Yes, that should work nicely.

Other than that... I like this idea. It has a clear theme, and the mass-roleblocking idea sounds fun.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:40 pm

Spoiler:
Brilliand wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:Right now, it sounds like it overrides the Escort some of the time but not all of the time, which could produce some very confusing scenarios.

He needs to either always override the escort (so he has permanent roleblock immunity, and the ability to roleblock the Escort through its immunity) or never override the escort (so if he devours a Bodyguard who was being blocked by an Escort, that Bodyguard is still roleblocked, so he can't also die guarding someone else).

So I should make the Wendigo's ability act as a role block for Town visitors? This makes it so that the Escort and Transporter are still unaffected while also making it more clear to the player how the mechanic works.


Yes, that should work nicely.

Other than that... I like this idea. It has a clear theme, and the mass-roleblocking idea sounds fun.
Great! So is there nothing wrong with anything else? The scum autovest, the consuming, the role blocking (of the target)... it's all fine?
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Brilliand » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:47 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:Right now, it sounds like it overrides the Escort some of the time but not all of the time, which could produce some very confusing scenarios.

He needs to either always override the escort (so he has permanent roleblock immunity, and the ability to roleblock the Escort through its immunity) or never override the escort (so if he devours a Bodyguard who was being blocked by an Escort, that Bodyguard is still roleblocked, so he can't also die guarding someone else).

So I should make the Wendigo's ability act as a role block for Town visitors? This makes it so that the Escort and Transporter are still unaffected while also making it more clear to the player how the mechanic works.


Yes, that should work nicely.

Other than that... I like this idea. It has a clear theme, and the mass-roleblocking idea sounds fun.

Great! So is there nothing wrong with anything else? The scum autovest, the consuming, the role blocking (of the target)... it's all fine?


There's nothing in that that I'm sure is wrong. I'd like to see it playtested to find problems that I can't see by just reading.

There are some minor things that I would change just for simplicity:
  • Instead of saying "consuming your target gives you invincible defense to rampages", I would just say he's immune to being indirectly attacked in a rampage. I can't think of a situation where he would be rampaged without getting a consume, and "invincible defense" is more distracting than "doesn't get attacked".
  • I don't see the benefit of roleblocking when you don't get a consume, I'd drop that just as an Occam's Razor thing.
  • I would make the Wendigo's scum autovest identical to the witch's. I get that this version of the autovest makes more sense (and maybe the Witch's should be changed to this), but I would prefer to have every scum autovest work the same way.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:07 pm

Brilliand wrote:There are some minor things that I would change just for simplicity:
  • Instead of saying "consuming your target gives you invincible defense to rampages", I would just say he's immune to being indirectly attacked in a rampage. I can't think of a situation where he would be rampaged without getting a consume, and "invincible defense" is more distracting than "doesn't get attacked".
  • I don't see the benefit of roleblocking when you don't get a consume, I'd drop that just as an Occam's Razor thing.
  • I would make the Wendigo's scum autovest identical to the witch's. I get that this version of the autovest makes more sense (and maybe the Witch's should be changed to this), but I would prefer to have every scum autovest work the same way.

The sentence has been slightly reworded. It now states "...consuming your target grants you immunity to being indirectly rampaged...".

The direct target role block is meant to prevent the target from being completely useless in the event that a target is never directly attacked. I suppose it could be removed as long as the Wendigo isn't too weak afterwards.

I strongly dislike the current autovest. Despite the fact that the vest was meant to prevent accidental kills by the Witch's own allies, the automatic basic defense acts as an unnecessary counter to the Vigilante and fails to protect from the Arsonist and Werewolf. I'd like my version of the autovest to be applied to both the Witch and Wendigo.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Pikachu5128 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:35 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote: - Paralyze: Role block a Jailor or Vigilante attempting to kill an evildoer.


This would cause the Wendigo to instantly know that the target they visited is an evildoer. This role doesn't gain information from its actions, it causes mass roleblocking and assisting other evils.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:34 pm

Pikachu5128 wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote: - Paralyze: Role block a Jailor or Vigilante attempting to kill an evildoer.


This would cause the Wendigo to instantly know that the target they visited is an evildoer. This role doesn't gain information from its actions, it causes mass roleblocking and assisting other evils.

That could be solved by showing the achievements at the end of the game, as I suggested in my achievement thread.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Fri May 01, 2020 5:35 am

This role seems interesting, but also kinda unbalanced. The fact that they get invincible defense the first time they are attacked by a town role means they can survive a jailor execution. The fact that they can essentially clean people who die makes everything more confusing for townies, although this role can't win with town so I guess it's good for them. The way this role works also seems somewhat complicated as it has many mechanics. I think this role would better fit in the Neutral Chaos alignment, since this role seems to have a lot of power in many situations.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby Brilliand » Fri May 01, 2020 9:16 am

KAKERMAN23 wrote:The fact that they get invincible defense the first time they are attacked by a town role means they can survive a jailor execution.


You misread that. They aren't invincible to Town, they're invincible to non-Town (i.e. evils).

The Arsonist can't kill this (on the first try at least), but the Jailor certainly can.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Fri May 01, 2020 11:03 am

Oh, okay, my mistake. I still think that it fits better as a neutral chaos role. The first time immunity against specifically non-town roles makes it more neutral chaos-y in my opinion.
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Re: Wendigo (Neutral Evil)

Postby SensationalMeat » Mon May 04, 2020 12:11 am

LORE IDEA
============
As the man held hands with his beloved on a rainy trip to the cold mountains, he couldn't help but feel a peculiar burning inside of him, as if two forces to oppose each other. The burning inside of him, against the freezing outside. He ignored it, or tried to. As they reached the mountain cottage, his beloved hugged him and went inside, to which he reacted discretely by licking his lips, as if he was a vampire about to suck his prey's blood dry. They parted ways for the meantime, as the man stayed outside to enjoy the view. But then, the burning returned. It was.. inevitable. The feeling of being alone with only one companion, no one watching, the burning getting stronger, it consumed him. His mouth was drooling not with the drools of drowse, but of hunger. A hunger for flesh.. little did he know, the man had become a Wendigo, a feared creature that hunted its kind, feasting on its flesh when the time had come. The burning inside of him had turned into ice, a heart coldest of them all. The fire was his humanity, and it had gone out. The cottage was ravaged, and the man was unaware of his actions. To seek refuge, he had come to invade the peaceful town of Salem, to fill his hunger and fuel his cold heart.
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