VFM51 | Discord | Canned

[TheWabbit]

fwog's reads are probably too bad to be coming from wolf

i disagree, i think they make the perfect cornered wolf reads

Except that would only apply if they are actually cornered wolf

they draw themselves to be cornered though, all they need to do is a be a wolf

it's entirely suicidal for them tbh
buildup to their lynch doesn't even hand out towncred to the wagon should they flip scum

if fwog is scum here the scumteam would be doing a very suboptimal bus

[TheDebil]

oh and ultix if you want to push for someone please read someones entire iso because your.first point already doesnt make any sense because you have not read. mobile is a bitch so let me get onto a laptop and respond

[TheDebil]

Spoiler:

2) Due to trial and error I'm deciding these reads are all mostly based off the second half of ISOs to avoid things that no longer apply messing with my reads.

please dont do that

i dont agree with the chemist read
i as town shit my pants more about being scumread than anything else

chemists push seems entirely normal to me and for early game thare is enough reason to make it
what is suspicious is chemists memephase talk, atleast to me

Bringing something up but not elaborating, not the behavior of someone who wants to further gamestate which town should be doing.

i bring something up that i elaborated on before - chemist's memephase talk. i think not bringing up what i mean would actually further the gamestate even more, as the question would be "what do you mean"? im just defending chemist against the point of his push being bad here and it being the reason that he is scum.

Debil why do you think helicooler is scummy?

stated my initial reasoning but now i changed my mind
page 1 heli and chemsit interactions feel like they are both scum mirroring eachother and trying to pocket other people from helis server. then heli gives up and votes chemist for distance
its a bit far fetched but very likely.imo

i actually agree with a lot of stuff chuckle is saying, he's definetely locktown and biggest content maker rn

content is nai

Fencesitting. Generally, stating something like this without saying what you think of it means you want to push a read in one direction without stating an opinion. Bad because scum want to avoid holding opinions as much as they can.

locktowning someone just because they are producing content is not a good idea, so im notifying dota here that scum can also produce good content as much as town can
i dont see how clearly saying "content is nai" to combat the locktown is fencesitting

Then some irrelevancy
TheDebil:

@Flake uhh ok
what do you think about the people that jumped on?

probably 1 wolf within them

yep. i agree

one of chemist/heli/jord is scum

i'm betting it's heli

more like chemist/jord

why do you townread heli?

i don't like her d1 attitude, and even if that's a part of the personality, which i respect, heli should just knock it off

17D similarity

he is being very blunt

he seems to always be blunt tho???

more fencesitting for the same reason as above.

and again its not fencesitting for the similar reason as above. flake is townreading heli for a weak reason that isnt even ai, so im pointing the fact that they are always blunt regardless of allignment to them

flake/qva/chemist/woahah

explain flake?

mostly gut
didnt like the way they defend qva and woahah tho
it would be too easy tho so not strong

i dare you to explain them, Heli

then dare

are you gonna keep ignoring my request?
do i need to say please?

@Debil what was wrong about the qva and Heli defenses

cant put my finger on it thats why i said mostly gut

Reads dont contain anything specific besides gut, therefore making for empty reads. Not inherently scummy, but the main reasons for doing this is either playing scum badly or being lazy.

well yeah my reads arent gonna be great because i read the game only one time
this is why i gave myself the job to iso dive so i can get stronger reads

why am i town now and why is wabbit in poe
bruh

flake/qva/chemist/woahah

read mafia game in vfm50

then read my iso here

then try to genuinely tell me that i ever flip wolf

also if you think i am ever wolf with qva you are stupid

havent read it but ill assume you say its different
you act like you couldnt change your game.if you were scum
you are good enough for that

and yes dota is town from the vc i can agree with this now
all of the votes on him are pretty unnoticable but they are piling up. only 3 votes but i dont think pure at all

The rest is alright but the second part is bad. It's more of the fencesitty type behavior but with extra. "I dont think the wagon is pure" with no followup on who he means and no pushing of it is fencesitting.

i dont think something is fencesitting when im showing a clear distaste for something, clearly townreading dota there and saying the wagon on him is bad and most likely has scum, if not multiple on it, pointing toward chemist/heli who i have stated as my scumreads earlier

qva/dota is TvS

I really dont like this without any explanation, because again it allows setting up pushes without being attached to them. Town shouldn't mind holding hard opinions, scum should.

my post here is pointing out that qva and dota couldnt be scum together, probably should have explained this better. i improve later on. i dislike both so i cant put them at tvt.

A lot of posts are made, but not a whole lot of game furthering content and zero pushing to be found. A lot of it is also seeming game content that isn't actually furthering because it isn't backed. A lot of fencesitty behavior and avoiding being attached to opinions or pushing. Very passive. As well as these, I get a bad gut vibe from the posts and feel like he's playing from a scum perspective. While some fencesitting and bringing up irrelevant things is okay, it feels like it's a majority of debils' play here.

i can agree i havent done much yet, mainly because im waiting the game to simmer down a little so i can do more detailed reads without falling behind on whats going down at the moment,because i take a long ass time to do anything that takes effort. a lot of the posts of mine you quoted you call fencesitty are my clear opinions misunderstood or not expanded upon further,but i will admit some of them are not fully explained because im being lazy and assume people can understand what im talking about/want them to look into something for themselves
with the bolded thing, what do you mean?

[TheDebil]

^ you can see how long i take, my laptop only took like 5 minutes to get ready. im trying to avoid making any long ass reads for now because it takes a long time for me to make a proper read, i just look at current ongoing things and try to poke any discrepancies i find

if you look at 18b i dont think i had any properly fleshed out reads except my scumread on heli d1 which was mostly based on meta and it was wrong in the first place

and if you look at switch fm (i forgot the number, the one overkill hosted) you can see how long i took there to even catch up with the game and form my reads

[dota2reporter]

@Phone

why did you say wabbit is ignoring posts when you didn't find evidence of that? was it gut?

[dota2reporter]

I feel the early attack on dota initiated by a reaction test on flake worked in favor of dota getting townread. I like how dota handled the situation.

When you say "worked in favor of dota getting townread", do you mean by you, or town as a whole?

i'm fairly sure the entire town

[Phone0Ix]

@Phone

why did you say wabbit is ignoring posts when you didn't find evidence of that? was it gut?

No I remember I did saw him ignoring a post. Maybe it wasnt rlly obvious so now I cant find the post

And anyways I am also voting Wabbit for other suspicious things than the post I quoted

[dota2reporter]

flake, why is chuckle a null for you?

[dota2reporter]

I don't like non's tone. It's hard to determine when they are joking and when they aren't. And some of their posts are just ???.

could you quote me the ??? posts?

[dota2reporter]

@Flake i see the logic in your Wabbit + Grumpy scumteam, but why would mafia miss a mafia buddy in their readslist?

[dota2reporter]

@Phone

why did you say wabbit is ignoring posts when you didn't find evidence of that? was it gut?

No I remember I did saw him ignoring a post. Maybe it wasnt rlly obvious so now I cant find the post

And anyways I am also voting Wabbit for other suspicious things than the post I quoted

it just feels like shading

try rereading wabbit's iso

[dota2reporter]

flake, why is chuckle a null for you?

Previously it was because I was unsure of what they'd be capable of as scum

But as of now I think they are a town lean because I find it hard to see chuckle being as forceful and progressive as this as scum

did you read their previous games? how did you come to that conclusion?

[dota2reporter]

@Ultii

interesting debil read, i liked debil's defense too

what do you think of these three debil posts which i consider townie?

Spoiler:

i'll post my reads and 1 question for everyone in the list

Debil - I think he would react differently to qva's accidental accusation if he was scum. the posts seem genuine and overall town motivated, it actually feels like he's trying to solve. Question: you said the wagon on me (which was 3 votes) isn't pure. Put the 3 voters in order from town to scum and explain

I have't attempted to read debil yet, though I notice he's generally being townread. Could you quote some of his posts that you think are townie?

Here:

I wasn't joking

than your question is absolutely stupid
do you expect scum to say "yes i am infact scum how did you know"

it doesnt always work like that
town would dance around as much as scum if they wanted to because no one wants to be scumread, and my claim isnt that in the first place
i said im a serial town because i thought it was funny

Chemist is using weak reasoning to justify a vote on dota.

If they are distancing then good play by them, because it doesn't look that way to me.

isnt that pretty much everyones who sr dota reasoning
how is chemist any different for you

[dota2reporter]

@Flake i see the logic in your Wabbit + Grumpy scumteam, but why would mafia miss a mafia buddy in their readslist?

Subconscious. "I know that X is Mafia, so there's no point in including them in my reads, since I wouldn't need to be reading what I already know". This is why my idea hinges on Wabbit and Goomba having been the most active in Mafia chat at the time; assuming Goomba and Wabbit are Mafia, the biggest reason Goomba would have to exclude Wabbit but not the other Mafia buddies is if Wabbit was the Mafia member on their mind the most. It is essentially a slip which can be easily be covered up if it were to be discovered; it has happened before in one of my games in VFM37 I believe, but no one picked up on it there.

it's just that me being close to goomba in experience level i feel like goomba would try to post reads of their scum buddies (i'd do the same thing)

@flake

fair enough, i agree

[dota2reporter]

provides furthering content
example:

why is wabbit town flake, i cc vigi

can you clarify if wabbit is being town flake or flake is being wabbit!town or is it just a yes
either way
1 yes point

that's one of the worst examples you could've given

[dota2reporter]

Oh I misunderstood I though he said neither town nor scum would do anything.

what's your new conclusion then?

That chuckles read my iso with confirmation bias. Besides if I were scum I could push you for better reasons than the fact that you didn't say "im not scum". I don't think what I did is AI

Correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly but what qva is trying to justify here is that he believes anything he says should basically be taken with a grain of salt because his actions were NAI. He's also justifying here that if he was playing as scum, he would push dota harder to look like scum which I find justifiable. Weak town read so far.

i'm the complete opposite, hiddenly asking people to take your posts with a grain of salt is scummy

[dota2reporter]

doesn't listing non-town indicative achieve similar results to listing scum-indicative posts?

Yes but also no

elaborate

@Debil but fwog isn't using the cornered attitude anymore (i think)

@Flake true. i want to see more development of this situation

[TheDebil]

flake, why is chuckle a null for you?

Previously it was because I was unsure of what they'd be capable of as scum

But as of now I think they are a town lean because I find it hard to see chuckle being as forceful and progressive as this as scum

i think this agression and scepticism would be the general playstyle of chuckle so.i wouldnt count on that solely
but i dont disagree

[TheDebil]

@Debil but fwog isn't using the cornered attitude anymore (i think)

maybe idk
i still dont like his reads very much tho

[dota2reporter]

@Debil but fwog isn't using the cornered attitude anymore (i think)

maybe idk
i still dont like his reads very much tho

what don't you like about them?

[TheDebil]

will start putting in the work later today but just in a dvance wont be crazy active tommorow since math exam is in 2 days

[TheDebil]

@Debil but fwog isn't using the cornered attitude anymore (i think)

maybe idk
i still dont like his reads very much tho

what don't you like about them?

the reads feel fabricated to me
from a townie truly trying to get out effort i would expect something like goombas or the classic phone reads but these felt very weak to me

[TheDebil]

@fwog
ever played with watchme?

[dota2reporter]

will start putting in the work later today but just in a dvance wont be crazy active tommorow since math exam is in 2 days

gl dude!

i see what you mean about fwog's reads, but he himself said that he wouldn't have made them if the wording of my question was different

[dota2reporter]

why's ultii still null for you after their reads list?