Borderline cheating items

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Borderline cheating items

Postby snailUWU » Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm

Not sure if this is the right forum, but these are just some things I noticed while playing. I personally find all of these items to be borderline cheating, since they all rely on exploiting holes in the game mechanics.

1. Coven: Dead shouldn't be able to taunt.
Medusa victims often use taunts to out medusa.

2. Coven VIP: Poisoned VIP leaving
Poisoned (or found) VIPs in will sometimes leave to "give town a chance", since that assigns a new townie as a VIP. This severely skews the game to the town's favor since that confirms the newly chosen townie and narrows down the pool of evils. I understand that leaving after being found is hard (probably impossible) to police, but maybe poisoned VIP leaving should be an automatic town loss.

3. Dracula's Palace: Youngest vampire leaving
Basically the same deal as #2 - youngest vampires who are found and repeatedly jailed or rb'ed will sometimes leave to give the other vamps a chance to convert/kill. This is once again very hard to police, but needs to be considered gamethrowing in a way. The whole mechanic of only the youngest vamp being allowed to visit victims is done for a specific purpose - in classic mafia, the Godfather will visit instead of Mafioso if the Mafioso is jailed. The vampires operate differently for a reason. If a youngest vampire is found by town and rbed continuously, then that is how the game was intended to work, and more players need to abide by it.

4. Coven Lovers: Very unbalanced towards single evils
Town-evil pairs pretty much gives town an extra vote and a vigilante without the consequences of suiciding. Most town-evil pairs go for town win since that is way easier than claiming a fake town role for the evil lover, and going for an evil role. Chances of town-evil pairs should be lowered.
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Re: Borderline cheating items

Postby Flavorable » Thu May 16, 2019 2:45 am

1: Taunts can just as easily be used to throw people off and they are never reliable when it comes to information.

2: This is already against the rules. The problem with a VIP leaving granting an auto-loss to town is that what if the VIP lags out because their Flash crashed?

3: Also against the rules. Intentional leaving = Gamethrowing.

4: Now I don't play Lovers myself, but I have indeed heard a lot of people saying that if you're Evil with no lover, the game is basically over. I highly support the Devs looking into this after the Unity port is ready.
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Re: Borderline cheating items

Postby snailUWU » Fri May 17, 2019 1:11 am

1: I see your point, but taunts are used to out medusa probably near 90% of the time that I've seen. Dead being able to communicate with the living without going through a medium seems like a flaw in the system.

2 & 3: That's great it's against the rules! I did not know that. The problem is that most users don't seem to consider that cheating, though. I guess I don't really have a good suggestion on how to combat this besides from really driving in to the user base that it is indeed cheating.
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Re: Borderline cheating items

Postby kyuss420 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:06 am

1. I always get a rando townie lynched, unless they have a solid claim and will, by taunting them after I have (or my team has) stoned someone. Love how people instantly think medusa is taunted. Hell, if Im GA, I even taunt my friends after medusa has stoned and try to lynch them.

2. Yup sucks, lost a lot of coven games that way, but lost a lot more by insta losing when VIP lags out.

3. This is where witch is meant to control jailor to the youngest, pity most witches are noobs

4. These are usually ''townie'' players who have never thought about game strategy when being evil, and try to win by luck and hitting randos.(even tho early game lovers is just a big luck fest) You know what makes it harder to win as a single evil? Other single evils leaving or outing themselves early if theyre on psy vision. Hitting anyone who claims to have a lover isnt that hard, getting 2 kills for 1 hit is a big advantage to single evils, and if youre solo arso while SK/GF is killing lover claims, its quite easy to douse the singles for the mop up.

giving town a ''free vigi'' is kind of moot as most of the evils have basic defence and will need to be lynched anyway. The biggest factor, that is impossible to get rid of in lovers is the confirmability of peoples roles as they have their lover to back up their claim, so unless medusa is good at baiting town, claim space can be limited.... its either claim medium or TP ( or tracker or sheriff if theres a stoned role or 3) claiming TS is hard because the TS are usually self confirmable, (unless youre medusa and were transed n1) claiming TP is hard because as soon as 1 dies, there is 2 counter claims to TP, usually 1 confirmed by a lover.

Either way Lovers mode is there mainly to get the NK achievements and just revolves around luck for the most part, skill comes down to knowing what the other evil NK roles should be doing on any particular night (and hoping the guy who got the role knows what theyre doing) killing as many people as you can as early as you can and pushing the other (more dangerous) single evils when youre being sussed.
I scroll for Medusa, WW and PB during lovers week and get a few solo wins every week, and get at least 1 lovers win with my evil lover every day (Playing as town is too vanilla for me, but when I am town, I can tell roles by trackers wills and spot fake wills much easier by knowing how to play as evil)
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Re: Borderline cheating items

Postby MoustachioMario » Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 am

For the VIP cheat:

If the VIP is poisoned and they leave, just have the new VIP gain the poison effect too.
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