VFM 49: SK win #rekt

[Chemist1422]

Ok so maybe my scum team is wrong.
But there is one thing I am sure of
And that is Crimson/Chemist’s Conversation had a Scum in it!

/Vote Chemist

sigh

[Zucker]

Ok so maybe my scum team is wrong.
But there is one thing I am sure of
And that is Crimson/Chemist’s Conversation had a Scum in it!

/Vote Chemist

sigh

DUDE YOUR FUCKING SCUM JUST ACCEPT IT

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Then vote Chemist if you haven’t already.

[Zucker]

I used my visions.

My Thoughts think: Flake, Proto and Chemist are Mafia
My Visions Say: Chemist and Eji are Mafia and Flake and Proto are Town.

[0verki11]

Current Vote Count

Player	Votes	Voters
	#	Votes Until Majority

Probably right be dont quote me on that one

[ejjinami]

I need to quickly pop in and let everyone know that I'm going to be unavailable for a few hours. Lost a distant family relative and I'm going to be occupied with family for a bit.

I'm okay, others are not. Will be back soon.

/pat
take care :<

I don't think tfios is mafia, as they had nothing to gain from not just committing to a Crimson lynch.

I think Rick's answer to my question of there being a deepwolf is really interesting and very potentially spewy depending on his alignment, and since tfios/Crimson/Zucker/Goomba are all unlikely mafia/flipped town I think he could be wolf with another deepwolf here, most probably Flake or ejji.

Elaborate on those 2 reads.

also

rick saying "you realise you always do this" with regards to ejji scum reading rick seems incredibly fake considering ejji and rick have never played in any games together

unless the games ejji hosts that rick was in they told rick that he thought he acted scummy??? but that doesn't much make sense if they're the host, it's literally telling rick he played bad and i don't think ejji does that at all

i don't see ejji telling rick he plays scummy in games they've read of him either like

what

rick just wouldn't say that ejji "always scum reads him" if they've literally not played any games together

further adding to the idea that it's orchestrated

How does us not playing together even matter? I remember writing that we talked about previous games and if you thought about it even a bit, you have realized that your theory is very unlikely to be true.

Rick replaced out of the game I hosted and joined the chat on discord, but we talked more about 2-nd purgatory later. Still, it doesn’t really matter. Why exactly would we even want to fake that?
Now that I think of it, I admit that the interactions might look a bit weird, but regardless of that your stance makes no sense.

[ejjinami]

also tfios has always been likely not mafia so that really would not make any sense

why is tfios not mafia?

Jesus christ you know it's bad when Zucker starts making more sense than Flake. I need a sanity check

pfffffffft xD

{Chemist, Zucker, Qva}
{Dash, tfios, Flake}
{Uzay, ejji}
{Rick, cupcake}
{Goomba, Proto}

You're better than having Qva > Me & Dash

From your PoV you should basically know I'm town at this point, and Dash is blatant town from his early game slip

The rest is acceptable from you but still bad

If it was bad, why didn’t you push chem for it before?

[ejjinami]

From your PoV you should basically know I'm town at this point

Qva is super pure but fair point I guess

I forgot about the slip from Dash early so factoring that in I guess you two are in the top row, though the bolded is really putting me off

I don’t like the intense buddying between chemist and flake

the last post might have been town indicative from Chemist though
:/ is it possible for scum to have forgotten sth like that? especially for mafia?

I'm pretty sure Dash is town just from the amount of people that are agreeing with what they say, feels like there are mafia trying to pocket Dash there

I'm kinda tempted to say he didn't lie about it, because of the way he "read dash anew based on the interactions", in his last wall.

...He might have faked it if he was planning to fake a town-slip since before the day started, but I still think it might be town-indicative.

[GrumpyGoomba]

Is there plurality this game or just majority?

[ejjinami]

ok, I really don’t like the conversation between Rick and Flake. It feels like rick is overreacting and I don’t like the way he immediately got a SR on both Flake and Chemist after they pushed him.
I don’t think the anger is fake, but it definitely shouldn’t have been enough to warrant an immediate SR on the ones who pushed him. And unless I’m misreading sth, I don’t see where his confidence in the read came from.
It’s possible that he made the read because of Flake genuinely enraging him, but it feels like sth that should come more likely from scum than town, even if only because townies should have more reasons to care about making sure they push scum. Elaborate on the read, please.

and flake’s responses make no sense. Some of them feel like he’s writing them in a way that’s supposed to make his targets angry and lose self-control, which is definitely more likely to come from someone who’s attempting to manipulate others into acting badly, in order to get some “easy MLes”.

show me evidence

“show me screens from a private conversation, or else you're scum”

show me evidence

discussion here is straight up lamist
zero points speculating this without kill credits and with the switches to consider

It's not lamist, it's just me making points from my PoV, is that not acceptable??

obviously provocative and obviously written in a way that's supposed to make flake look good and Rick look worse for pushing him

show me evidence

if you dont know this
you have zero fucking business meta reading me and speculating what conversations ejj and i shouldnt be having
on this you can straight up piss off

Uh

am I missing something or am i literally being vilified for speculating something that is potentially helpful to the game?

and I feel it’s really unlikely for flake not to understand what rick was talking about. Unless I somehow managed to misunderstand it in a weird way, he seems to have just twisted rick’s words in a way that would make him look scummier, which I really don’t like.

[ejjinami]

Chemist no town ever acts this way and you know that

Tbh I don’t think I’m buying your read on chemist rn. I don’t think the explanation was forced
can you elaborate on the read?

look can my town pool stop being bad and just lynch the obv scum in ejjinami

thanks

eLaBoRaTe pLeAsE

goomba's reads don't make sense coming from mafia

why?

Okay I have finally caught up with the thread. Did a cop check on me succeed? If not then don't claim. See people think that I am the sk. If I was the sk then :-
1. I would be immune to mafia kills, that would make it so that cop can find me. Why would I want that to happen to me actively?
2. I would be immune to vig/cop. That would make it so that I am literally announcing to the mafia that I am not immune to them by wanting a cop check on me, making it so that maf can eliminate me anytime they want.

How could what I am doing be even remotely beneficial to me if i were the SK?

As for me being mafia, I don't really know people would come to that conclusion. Who would I even be in a scum team with?

dO yOu hAvE aNyThInG eLsE tO sAy?

/Vote cupcake

again, I really doubt grumpy is MvM with cupcake
there's literally no reason for them to buss, since Dash was the only one who said anything about lynching them today.
Grumpy would have to be incredibly paranoid to buss cupcake immediately, FOR THE 2’ND TIME.

[ejjinami]

To people who think mine and chemist's interaction is orchestrated

In what world does Mafia come up with

"hey chem, you make a fake slip by including someone who dies you out on it, i'll deepwolf and call you outed scum because i'll say i think you make the slip on someone specifically rather than you knowing the possibility that it could be a slip but not being bothered to remove the slip after the flip of the someone who dies, but then i'll realise it's actually you just knowing the possibility it could be a slip pre-flip and do a completee 180 on you"

like can you all use your brains for a bit

NO

ONE

ORCHESTRATES

THIS

AS

MAFIA

EVER

NO ONE COMES UP WITH THAT PLAN

honestly, I don’t think you would have needed to discuss it previously
There’s nothing that makes it unlikely to have been simple, unplanned distancing.
You’re making an unnecessary fuss about it

Ugh I'm so tired. I work earlier tomorrow too, so I'll post some catchup, but I'm not going to be on for too long tonight.

[ejjinami]

i have a few reasons for thinking ejji is scum

early game comments on SK seem incredibly dubious with their comments on SK, and let's just say I also have an angleshot also alluding to the idea that they are SK or at least scum

You’re talking about me noticing that SK might not have been able to send their ability choice, right?
if so, no, I’m overly aware of the setup and host responsibilities because I’ve been hosting non-stop in here and on MS for around 2 months. It’s kinda difficult to get out of that mindset if you’ve done it for too long.

they don't really seem to ever try to progress the game themselves; almost all their posts where "attempted progression" is made it's just asking people to elaborate on things constantly

that’s because it’s needed. It’s just the way I play, it’s not scummy.
You seem to have read my ISO from my last VFM and unless sth is seriously wrong with my memory, I’ve done that A LOT more there than here, so you SRing me for it is weird imo.

the rest is actually fair. I don’t think I have anything to say about that.
The way I play largely depends on my mood and on the game-progression, so I guess my posts might have been tonally differently in the game you checked. :/
/shrug

[ejjinami]

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=99445&start=1425#p3171380
/pat ):

Spoiler: Flake, I'm sorry, but no. There are pairings of Mafia teams that would certainly not be able to pull some kind of "slip" tactic in the thread on the fly, certainly, but if your argument is that you and Chemist don't have the skill set to pull this off, don't even bother. You don't qualify for this premise.

You and Chemist are two skilled players who I think wouldn't be afraid to attempt something like this if you put yourselves up to it. If your argument is that "it's too difficult to fake" and that "it's too genuine for people at our skill level", it's never going to fly with me, and I don't care how hard you try to dispute this, you're not going to convince me when I know that you and Chemist are smart enough to make something like this work.

Is my take wrong on this? Possibly. But if your argument revolves around difficulty and skill level between you and Chemist, then it's a pretty shitty argument.

Adding this, since it's relevant:

To people who think mine and chemist's interaction is orchestrated

In what world does Mafia come up with

"hey chem, you make a fake slip by including someone who dies you out on it, i'll deepwolf and call you outed scum because i'll say i think you make the slip on someone specifically rather than you knowing the possibility that it could be a slip but not being bothered to remove the slip after the flip of the someone who dies, but then i'll realise it's actually you just knowing the possibility it could be a slip pre-flip and do a completee 180 on you"

like can you all use your brains for a bit

NO ONE ORCHESTRATES THIS AS MAFIA EVER

NO ONE COMES UP WITH THAT PLAN

How about, the same world where Mafia!Chemist says this:

Cool are we just gonna have everyone townslip

Everyone this game so far has literally spent the entire time talking about how this person or that person derped themselves into being called lock town so far. If I were Mafia in this game and I saw everyone narrowing down their PoE lists because of it, then yeah, I can see myself trying to fabricate something like this, and I can totally see other people doing it as Mafia too. This kind of scum theater would also serve a hell of a lot of purpose under the circumstances too. I don't see it going exactly the way you quoted it in the above (not unless you're the biggest troll literally ever and this is exactly how it went), but I can see it getting suggested no problem at all.

Flake, seriously, like how exactly do you plan on expecting us to believe that you wouldn't pull this off as scum because you don't have the skill for it?

I really like that post

[ejjinami]

This is absolute chaos I'm about to replace out

hush, look at the puppies


compared to some games that have run here lately, I don’t think this one is that bad tbh

I'm just caving in now because you know what I'm probably gonna die tonight anyway and at this point you've all drained my patience.

Some of you may have noticed I've been focusing a lot on cupcake today and finding possible associations with him. This is because I am the cop and I checked him last night. Guess what? He turned out to be mafia.

I kinda figured it’d be sth like that based on the way people reacted to my posts, but still, nice :0

The day hasn’t ended yet, so I’m assuming it’s intentional.
Actually, I’d prefer it that way anyway, I think.
Let me catch up first xd

[0verki11]

Protozigg has been prodded for a second time and will be replaced.

[ejjinami]

I wonder if I truly would've put this much focus on me being the sk if I actually were sk...

Anyways nope you are wrong. Swap me for ejj and that's a go on the scums.

elaborate on your read on me

if cupcake actually didn't read his rolecard up until the end

Hmmmm

Let's look at more ISOs.

just read the damn game, please.

Idea: Don't look at your rolecard until N1

@0verki11 can I ask you to confirm that cupcake HAS ACTUALLY READ HIS ROLE-CARD?
Ask him to confirm privately or sth.
thx

these posts from ejji could be telling

Assuming he didn’t read his RC, do you really think if I were SvS with him, I’d have written that in the game thread instead of on discord? -_-
This is lv0 reasoning

and fuck, I’m starting to fall asleep while writing, it’s way too late even for my standards
I have just started reading page 61. Gonna finish it tomorrow
sorry for that

P.Edit:

This is absolute chaos I'm about to replace out

hush, look at the puppies
[youtube.]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4gzsw8MrU[/youtube]

Rapid Liquid = Instant Respect

Anyways I'm gonna try and do something for a few minutes. I'm really trying my hardest to get stuff done but it's my graduation weekend aaaaaaa

/pat xd

[Qvapil]

I know you're townreading chemist, but why not tfios?

i said stuff about tfios at some point in my iso

that stuff still holds, like the opening read and stuff

also i doubt mafia!tfios pushes the idea that killing mafia first over SK is a good idea

also probs mafia!tfios doesn't say this knowing cupcake is mafia:

"IMO, crimson is doing this more than cupcake, but cupcake appears to be the top wagon , so like I said I’m fine with either"

Since it'd run the risk of making her look bad after crimson green flip

I searched your iso and I disagree. Both on the meta part, though I'm willing to ignore that, and on your other two points. Whether they prefer mafia or SK to die first is irrelevant, they could say whatever as either alignment, especially since it was purely hypothetical discussion. And your point about that quote being too incriminating is ???. It's scummy exactly because it's incriminating

[Qvapil]

Uzay could you explain what you mean by pockety? When you were talking about ejji and me townreading you

Psicologically , people tend to act good to Player they are acted good by , and vice versa .Also Applies from " bad act" .
So , scum can try acting good / townread The players who think they can effect their read with , with hope that Will cause A townread on them , or A Choose which benefit them later at Game .

Oh I get it. Thanks, you're being really helpful.

is it just me that finds this fake

Dude are you being serious? I asked a question, uzay answered and I fucking thanked him. I think you're looking at this with confirmation bias to justify my place in your scumteams.

By the way, what are your thoughts on ejji's vca megapost? They argued pretty convincingly in favour of uzay, who you are against, and in general the points they presented differed from your pools of possible scum.

[Qvapil]

So you only talk about things you agree with? You've been really dismissive of anything people say against your opinions.

[GrumpyGoomba]

Uzay could you explain what you mean by pockety? When you were talking about ejji and me townreading you

Psicologically , people tend to act good to Player they are acted good by , and vice versa .Also Applies from " bad act" .
So , scum can try acting good / townread The players who think they can effect their read with , with hope that Will cause A townread on them , or A Choose which benefit them later at Game .

Oh I get it. Thanks, you're being really helpful.

is it just me that finds this fake

Dude are you being serious? I asked a question, uzay answered and I fucking thanked him. I think you're looking at this with confirmation bias to justify my place in your scumteams.

By the way, what are your thoughts on ejji's vca megapost? They argued pretty convincingly in favour of uzay, who you are against, and in general the points they presented differed from your pools of possible scum.

AtE followed by sudden shift of discussion point

noted

they have uzay near top, cupcake at null and qva at top town

need i say more

They haven't caught up yet

[0verki11]

TheDebil replaces Protozigg

[TheDebil]

been reading the thread somewhat but ill need to catchup

[Qvapil]

I know you're townreading chemist, but why not tfios?

i said stuff about tfios at some point in my iso

that stuff still holds, like the opening read and stuff

also i doubt mafia!tfios pushes the idea that killing mafia first over SK is a good idea

also probs mafia!tfios doesn't say this knowing cupcake is mafia:

"IMO, crimson is doing this more than cupcake, but cupcake appears to be the top wagon , so like I said I’m fine with either"

Since it'd run the risk of making her look bad after crimson green flip

I searched your iso and I disagree. Both on the meta part, though I'm willing to ignore that, and on your other two points. Whether they prefer mafia or SK to die first is irrelevant, they could say whatever as either alignment, especially since it was purely hypothetical discussion. And your point about that quote being too incriminating is ???. It's scummy exactly because it's incriminating

tl;dr "they could"

yes, they COULD, but the point is I don't deem those things likely based on tfios' meta; I don't think she is one to make takes potentially hurting her alignment to some extent when she doesn't need to do so, i don't think she tries to earn towncred in that way as scum

Well I can't argue meta with you, but I'm not convinced. Reading just this game tfios seems very likely scum imo.

[Qvapil]

To vote or not to vote?

To sheep or not to sheep?

To not copy Shakespeare or not?

I’m okay with either a cupcake Lynch or a crimson lynch, proto zigg should never be lynched at this point in this case since their slot is unreadable at the moment due to inactivity , hopefully a more active player replaces in

As to crimson and cupcake, they have both been actively inactive, crimson moreso than cupcake, by posting barely anything helpful from a townie perspective. IMO, crimson is doing this more than cupcake, but cupcake appears to be the top wagon , so like I said I’m fine with either

"Crimson is more scummy than cupcake but cupcake is getting votes so ok."

What

This was cup's response, for reference. I can't derive anything from it, it seems NAI. What do you think?

[Rickdaily12]

I was completely wrong about this weekend getting any easier on me. It's not going to. I'm really sorry, guys.

/vote cupcake

It's basically hell from now until Monday. I'll try to pop on when I can between work and family, and if I can't commit, I might have to replace out.

Right now, assuming Dash is actually Cop (because I have every reason to believe this and no reason not to), three more scum remain. I still think the entry between Flake and Chemist was odd and didn't look like TvT to me when I first looked at it.

My strongest Town reads after Dash are probably Qvapil and Ejj. Goomba has also improved just on quick skimming. Zucker is Town or dies fairly soon if he isn't based on EoD yesterday. Everyone else is null or worse or could be Town but has something questionable in my mind right now.

I didn't want to end the day without my vote or without at least giving my take on the very general of it all. If I have time before EoD I'll try expanding on this some more.