Player Pronouns

[emslaya]

Hey all!

So I recently noticed that the game assigns pronouns to a player in a game based on the townie skin the player is using. I saw this happen myself when the game started referring to me as a 'he' in a game where I was using the Beezlebub townie skin.

Since the game determines what pronouns to use during a game for a player presumably based on tags associated with the townie skin they are using, why not just make it so the player can choose which pronouns they use themselves? It should be a pretty easy thing to fix. Instead of associating the pronouns with a townie skin, we could just have the user select what pronouns to use in the customization options screen. As a default, gender neutral (they/them) pronouns could be used.


Here's a few examples of how the game uses pronouns currently:

Sigma died last night
He was drained by a Coven Leader

Tostito died last night
She was killed by an ambusher

Seems like something that would be easy to change, so I hope ToS/BlankMediaGames does so.

[MysticMismagius]

/support. Better yet, have a option to quick-toggle it during the name selection screen. I randomize my skins, and the amount of times I've picked a masculine name but gotten a female skin (and thus, wrong pronouns) or vice versa is aggravating.

[NightmareMoon]

big /support

[StrahmDude]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

[NightmareMoon]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

so is, for example, banning users for saying the n-word. rightwing ideologues will get outraged over anything, it doesn't matter

[Flavorable]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

I agree with this, personally.

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

so is, for example, banning users for saying the n-word. rightwing ideologues will get outraged over anything, it doesn't matter

There is a BIG difference between people "worrying" about what gender pronoun is used for an ingame character and people being racist. Has nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with basic human decency and common sense.

[Betelgeuse44]

Most mafia sites have this, no reason ToS shouldn’t have it as well.

[emslaya]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.


Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

[Flavorable]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.


Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

It's a game where you "roleplay" as the townie-skin you chose, though.

[NightmareMoon]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.


Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

It's a game where you "roleplay" as the townie-skin you chose, though.

i don't think literally anybody does that

[emslaya]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.


Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

It's a game where you "roleplay" as the townie-skin you chose, though.

i don't think literally anybody does that

Agree that no one seems to roleplay as a townie skin ever.

Also don't see what point you are tying to make by saying "It's a game where you "roleplay" as the townie-skin you chose, though." Even if that were the case, how does that have to do with the topic at all?

[Kyuashu]

/support. It's a basic feature that shouldn't be too hard to implement.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

/Support simple, but not really that useful or worth it but idc

[StrahmDude]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.

Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

It is a change that adds nothing to the game while bringing in an entire issue of gender identity. At least I do not want to touch that beehive with a 10-foot pole. Not to mention, this really isn't worth the effort of adding. It would probably take 30min and there are better things to be done during those 30 mins.

[NightmareMoon]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.

Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

It is a change that adds nothing to the game while bringing in an entire issue of gender identity. At least I do not want to touch that beehive with a 10-foot pole. Not to mention, this really isn't worth the effort of adding. It would probably take 30min and there are better things to be done during those 30 mins.

nonsense argument. from previous experiences (battletech) cesspits like 8chan or /r/kia will be mad for about two minutes and there will be no other impact.

[Kyuashu]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

This is a really dumb reason for arguing against a simple change. Pronoun selection is already a norm in most places anyways.

Other than allowing pronoun selection as an option in customization settings, they could literally just remove the whole 'he/she' thing from the previous examples i mentioned and instead only use (they/them) pronouns when referring to events happening to a player. Like, technically there was never even a need for using gendered pronouns in these few instances anyways, and the whole gendered pronouns being associated with specific townie skins was pretty dumb to begin with.

It is a change that adds nothing to the game while bringing in an entire issue of gender identity. At least I do not want to touch that beehive with a 10-foot pole. Not to mention, this really isn't worth the effort of adding. It would probably take 30min and there are better things to be done during those 30 mins.

Why the fuck are you so salty? Also how the fuck does it bring the issue of gender identity.

[StrahmDude]

It is a change that adds nothing to the game while bringing in an entire issue of gender identity. At least I do not want to touch that beehive with a 10-foot pole. Not to mention, this really isn't worth the effort of adding. It would probably take 30min and there are better things to be done during those 30 mins.

Why the fuck are you so salty? Also how the fuck does it bring the issue of gender identity.

You would be the only salty one here. I just don't think the change is worth the effort. Also, the second you have anyone assign a gender to their profile you will have to deal with gender identity. Just leave it out, not like it will enhance the game.

[emslaya]

It is a change that adds nothing to the game while bringing in an entire issue of gender identity. At least I do not want to touch that beehive with a 10-foot pole. Not to mention, this really isn't worth the effort of adding. It would probably take 30min and there are better things to be done during those 30 mins.

Why the fuck are you so salty? Also how the fuck does it bring the issue of gender identity.

You would be the only salty one here. I just don't think the change is worth the effort. Also, the second you have anyone assign a gender to their profile you will have to deal with gender identity. Just leave it out, not like it will enhance the game.

No, I do have to agree with the others on this. You really seem to be overly against this for some reason and tbh it's making me a bit uncomfortable.

Also, if you look at the original post you'll see that the main issue is that ToS already assigns players gender pronouns based on the townie skin they use, and therefore are already assigning genders to players. Your entire argument is nonsensical. Please re-read the original post, maybe you misunderstood what the issue we were discussing was.

[StrahmDude]

>.>
my point is there is nothing wrong with the skin based gender assignment, and changing it would be pointless and not worth the time.
(the fact is that it would actually take a lot longer to change than one would think)

also seriously, I literally just disagree with you all and you guys are treating me like I am writing page long rants about you guys being neo-nazies. Chill.

[kyuss420]

>.>
my point is there is nothing wrong with the skin based gender assignment, and changing it would be pointless and not worth the time.
(the fact is that it would actually take a lot longer to change than one would think)

also seriously, I literally just disagree with you all and you guys are treating me like I am writing page long rants about you guys being neo-nazies. Chill.

+1 there are a lot of other things that need slight improvements, I mean even if it got to the list, it wouldnt be at the top. Why not just make it so you can choose which skins you want to use when you click ''random''. dont wanna be called he? choose female skins...

[emslaya]

>.>
my point is there is nothing wrong with the skin based gender assignment, and changing it would be pointless and not worth the time.
(the fact is that it would actually take a lot longer to change than one would think)

also seriously, I literally just disagree with you all and you guys are treating me like I am writing page long rants about you guys being neo-nazies. Chill.

+1 there are a lot of other things that need slight improvements, I mean even if it got to the list, it wouldnt be at the top. Why not just make it so you can choose which skins you want to use when you click ''random''. dont wanna be called he? choose female skins...

I have to agree with this. There are so, so, SOOO many other things the devs need to address and look at once Unity is done that players have been demanding for years. And the idea of being able to select what skins you want to be randomized has been selected countless times and would easily solve this issue, while also making everyone else who gets free skins from the Cauldron that they don't want to use, but like to randomize, happy.

I also feel like people need to be reminded to respect the opinions of other players and not to taking things too personally here. If people don't agree with you, that's fine. There is no need to get ultra defensive over it. We don't need pointless drama on these forums.

So I also agree that I'd like the ability to select which townie skins I'd want to "random", (definitely don't like some of the townie skins I currently have as a result of the cauldron lol), but I disagree that this somehow solves the solution. Again, remember how I noticed the issue to begin with after using the Beezlebub skin.

Maybe the issue here is that pronouns matter to some people more than others, but to those of us that do care about them this issue bothers us quite a bit. Some of the arguments made against fixing the problem were nonsensical ('[doing this] adds nothing while bringing in an entire issue of gender indentity"? like wtf... ), and while I understand that many have other things they want to see changed more, (like making the userbase of ToS less toxic, having the game crash less often, etc), what we're proposing here is a really minor tweak in the code that would make some of us a lot happier.

Again, this would be a pretty simple change to make if the tags that trigger what pronouns the game uses are just associated with skins like I'm guessing is the case. I've also proposed just changing the code so that in the few instances the game does refer to the user with gendered pronouns, (ie deaths), it just uses gender neutral (they/them) pronouns instead. There was never really a need for the game to use this weird 'assigning gender based on skin' system to begin with and it's pretty dumb in my opinion.

[emslaya]

By the way, created a poll on the topic. (Didn't know how to do that until now.) I've included the various points we've been discussing but if you have another option that you'd like me to add please let me know and I'd be happy to.

[Zyprexa2024]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

how would that happen? I am sorry but this stuff also bothers me but this is just smart.

/support

[woahah]

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

I agree with this, personally.

/no support
this is a big bag of social issues and drama that I think this game should just stay away from. You are then going to get into the issue of gender identity and that isn't going to be fun for literally anyone involved.

so is, for example, banning users for saying the n-word. rightwing ideologues will get outraged over anything, it doesn't matter

There is a BIG difference between people "worrying" about what gender pronoun is used for an ingame character and people being racist. Has nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with basic human decency and common sense.

can you two tell me what the problem is for picking pronouns? Saying that adding gender options will start drama is stupid.

[LevinSnakesRise]

I see no reason for this to be added, but I also no reason for it not to, other than there's more important things than adding a way for players to specify that they themselves are a certain pronoun, rather than their skin. (I find that pointless tbh. You're playing as the skin you are, you're roleplaying, therefor, you're either male or female. Does it matter if it calls you what you want it to?)

This would be the last thing I'd expect the developers to add, if this were to be approved.