VFM 49: SK win #rekt

[Flake]

someone remind me why literally everyone is tring ejji

they've done literally nothing that has actually improved the gamestate for town the entire game

???
Cant see that .

well

no one else is sring them i'm pretty sure

[UzayAltay]

{Chemist, Zucker, Qva}
{Dash, tfios, Flake}
{Uzay, ejji}
{Rick, cupcake}
{Goomba, Proto}

You're better than having Qva > Me & Dash

From your PoV you should basically know I'm town at this point, and Dash is blatant town from his early game slip

The rest is acceptable from you but still bad

Wait
What Did I missed ?

[UzayAltay]

{Chemist, Zucker, Qva}
{Dash, tfios, Flake}
{Uzay, ejji}
{Rick, cupcake}
{Goomba, Proto}

You're better than having Qva > Me & Dash

From your PoV you should basically know I'm town at this point, and Dash is blatant town from his early game slip

The rest is acceptable from you but still bad

[/quote]
Wait
What Did I missed ?


(Ebwop)

[UzayAltay]

{Chemist, Zucker, Qva}
{Dash, tfios, Flake}
{Uzay, ejji}
{Rick, cupcake}
{Goomba, Proto}

You're better than having Qva > Me & Dash

From your PoV you should basically know I'm town at this point, and Dash is blatant town from his early game slip

The rest is acceptable from you but still bad

Wait
What Did I missed ?


(Ebwop)
(Mobile Sucks)

[UzayAltay]

Chemist you're seriously not helping your case

I'm trying, okay?

You're saying I faked the slip knowingly and actually slipped because I knew it would be fake, but I explained what actually happened. If you're not refuting that you can't push me based on the slip.

Wait What This is completely wrong .
If You are Okay with Flake TR ing You with your slip
But not aggreeing with Dash SR ing You with your flip
Than This is LAMIST
Which is FoS
Due You not keeping your original opinion ( Slip was NAI )
Happily take The cred from Flake
But refusing SRs
Actually This deserves A vote
But I Will Wait for your explanation

[UzayAltay]

Now, the fact that you suddenly attacked me for calling you out FURTHER lets me know you know you're in the wrong, and are trying to shade me over it

TBH I Will automaticly vote anyone using "shade" wrong
Yes I Will Do that
SHADİNG = İMPLYİNG SB İS SCUM DUE STH WITHOUT ACTUALLY SCUMREADİNG THEM OR ATTACKİNG THEM

[UzayAltay]

Spoiler:

Chemist you're seriously not helping your case

I'm trying, okay?

You're saying I faked the slip knowingly and actually slipped because I knew it would be fake, but I explained what actually happened. If you're not refuting that you can't push me based on the slip.

Can we push on you based on the way you and flake communicated to each other? ^_^

If you think we're wolves because of it

Though you have to get specific evidence with actual explanations

Let me show you basic logic 101

If you're town you don't acknowledge that you slipped at all. The fact that you claimed you knew the slip was there and left it does not tell me the slip was accidental.

I knew the possiblity for a slip was there when I made the post

I forgot it was there when I posted

I acknowledged it because I looked to see what Flake was talking about and remembered when I saw it

Now, the fact that you suddenly attacked me for calling you out FURTHER lets me know you know you're in the wrong, and are trying to shade me over it

I didn't even attack you

I said you haven't responded to my defense, which you haven't. And calling someone "scum or dumb" is shade.

No, it is not shade
If they stated which one they are believing
Which they Did as I remember

[UzayAltay]

Now, the fact that you suddenly attacked me for calling you out FURTHER lets me know you know you're in the wrong, and are trying to shade me over it

TBH I Will automaticly vote anyone using "shade" wrong
Yes I Will Do that
SHADİNG = İMPLYİNG SB İS SCUM DUE STH WITHOUT ACTUALLY SCUMREADİNG THEM OR ATTACKİNG THEM

Yes I was using it correctly thank you

" They Attacked and shaded me over X "
Shade : implying sb is scum without attacking
So , If You used shade True , You used attack wrong
Which is What I am assuming from now .

[UzayAltay]

this game is becoming a clusterfuck

I Dont know What that means
But it is probably right

[UzayAltay]

Chemist no town ever acts this way and you know that

If he knew that then why would scum!chemist admit to it

It's literally just WIFOM at this point

The better take is to look at Chemist's demeanour throughout my aggressiveness; do you think that comes from Scum!Chemist? Because I don't

-It is WIFOM
-Due it being WIFOM , Chemist is town Because scum wont make it

[UzayAltay]

Spoiler:

Sorry about the wait
Phone0lx has been killed, he was Doctor
Eragon1239 has been killed, he was Citizen
48 hours glgl.

By the way both of these are shit kill options for scum, so either the Vig was one of them or scum has bad sense of choices

i mean then where did one of the scum kills go, you think someone was attacked & healed?

eragon wouldn't be bad for mafia

phone i do not get at all if mafia killed them

makes sense if sk tried to kill mafia!phone

probs maf killed era and sk killed phone i'm guessing

but yeah both kills were good for my poe so

but maybe that suggests my poe isn't great, idk

discussion here is straight up lamist
zero points speculating this without kill credits and with the switches to consider

It's not lamist, it's just me making points from my PoV, is that not acceptable??

And why would I consider switches here, I literally didn't need to at all, first point implies a possibility occurred so switches isn't relevant here, rest of the points are takes regarding kills for which I wouldn't need to mention switches at all

while also pretending to not know that ejj and i are close friends when we openly pair together on threads where i play
is actually pissing me off

show me evidence

if you dont know this
you have zero fucking business meta reading me and speculating what conversations ejj and i shouldnt be having
on this you can straight up piss off

Uh

am I missing something or am i literally being vilified for speculating something that is potentially helpful to the game?

sorry if you're offended by that but i literally don't understand why you would be

no
nuh uh
your "slip" exchange with flake felt forced and fake as fuck

if you think the slip exchange is fake you are stupid

scum never orchestrates something as intricate as that

because mafia never do a scum theater
right

They do

But you're missing my point entirely

If you'd somewhat analysed what went down you would know that it is too intricate to ever be faked by literally anyone on this site

Flake realize he mess up
Flake push Rick
Flake regret situation with Chemist
Flake yelling at Chemist in Mafia Chat.

Congratulations .
You now win " WOtMed from every Game that Dash Hosts " award .

[UzayAltay]

games like this where i want to punch my self in the face are the best games

[x]No .

[UzayAltay]

No need to try and recover from your actions.
You guys both admitted to be Mafia and Proto might also be as well.
It’s ok if you lose! ^_^
Just means you no deserve win!

This is the most condescending post to the point where I want to self-vote just to shut you up

Stop it. This kind of attitude makes me really not want to play the game.

Other than this, it's objectively anti-town behavior. You're refusing to re-evaluate or even consider the fact that your scumreads might be town. You're putting town in a situation where they're completely unable to convince you that they're town which leads to mislynches.

If you're town here, stop and think and read. If you refuse to do any of those, you're basically throwing here because your behavior is anti-town and you refuse to let people put in effort to convince you they're town. Even if they were to anyway, you're making it an unpleasant gamestate so they wouldn't want to.

Unless some magical Town Play happens and Chemist claims Vigilante or something.
I’m pretty confident on the Flake/Chemist/Proto Scum Team.

I wish I shouldn't say to You that You need to find All scum instead one .
Okay , it is A step , but saying Same thing 973891738927182929179202018177292927178229 times make You very annoying that regardless of your being right or wrong , You wont be listened .

[UzayAltay]

Okay I have finally caught up with the thread. Did a cop check on me succeed? If not then don't claim. See people think that I am the sk. If I was the sk then :-
1. I would be immune to mafia kills, that would make it so that cop can find me. Why would I want that to happen to me actively?
2. I would be immune to vig/cop. That would make it so that I am literally announcing to the mafia that I am not immune to them by wanting a cop check on me, making it so that maf can eliminate me anytime they want.

How could what I am doing be even remotely beneficial to me if i were the SK?

As for me being mafia, I don't really know people would come to that conclusion. Who would I even be in a scum team with?

Can sb explain The Logic at there to me ?
Like it seems to me he tried to prove they are not SK on A ???? way ?
I cant set up Logic here .

[Flake]

i have a few reasons for thinking ejji is scum

early game comments on SK seem incredibly dubious with their comments on SK, and let's just say I also have an angleshot also alluding to the idea that they are SK or at least scum

they don't really seem to ever try to progress the game themselves; almost all their posts where "attempted progression" is made it's just asking people to elaborate on things constantly

in their town games they seem far more blunt and sarcastic, and their progression seems more self-made, things like:

"Haha do you think I care?
I'll tell you that I do not. if you're not progressing the game and if I think you're scummy, I will get rid of you regardless how shitty my arguments are
Besides, I do think that you're scummy and saying that "you're always like that" is not a convincing argument"

"Hey, wanna vote me again?"

"why aren't you SRing me? If I understood it correctly, you didn't like my previous posts"

"Sigh, I think you're just overthinking it. If you've ever played with scorpio, you should know that he's not the "thinker" type (no offense)"

"Tbh if you think the doc claim is bad, you suck at tone-reading"

are some notable posts which align with their town meta

generally their play just seems very wishy-washy here and very much aligns with what they'd do as scum

[Flake]

this game is becoming a clusterfuck

I Dont know What that means
But it is probably right

LOL

[UzayAltay]

Spoiler:

Qva/Chemist/cupcake is where I'm standing at rn

Can see Chem/cupcake , but Qva seems A bit off . Okay , they have interaction with cupcake , but Did You looked Qva/Chem interaction ? I am only remembering

I'm pretty sure Dash is town just from the amount of people that are agreeing with what they say, feels like there are mafia trying to pocket Dash there

Uzay is null, ejji is null, both might change with more flips

I'm townreading Flake for confbias reasons, I don't think he goes so far out of his way to defend town!me as scum

Zucker probably town by meta+townslip

Cupcake is wolfy but not in their wolf meta, so not really sure

Tfios and Proto I already touched on

Rick I already mentioned

Goomba is wolfy in a weird way from their D1 AtE and defensiveness

Qva is towny because they're actually taking stances and pushing stuff unlike how they did when they were scum

{Chemist, Zucker, Qva}
{Dash, tfios, Flake}
{Uzay, ejji}
{Rick, cupcake}
{Goomba, Proto}

This ,Maybe it is possible to find More with ISO ing but it is early for speak I think.

[Flake]

nvm my angleshot is bad

[Flake]

wait nvm the angleshot could be true

i'll just shut up now

[UzayAltay]

this game is becoming a clusterfuck

I Dont know What that means
But it is probably right

LOL

Flake , If angleshoot is about that post
I can understand it is A bad thing due Last 4 letters
But not knowing exact meaning
Also Will go at 12 minutes

[UzayAltay]

i have a few reasons for thinking ejji is scum

early game comments on SK seem incredibly dubious with their comments on SK, and let's just say I also have an angleshot also alluding to the idea that they are SK or at least scum

they don't really seem to ever try to progress the game themselves; almost all their posts where "attempted progression" is made it's just asking people to elaborate on things constantly

in their town games they seem far more blunt and sarcastic, and their progression seems more self-made, things like:

"Haha do you think I care?
I'll tell you that I do not. if you're not progressing the game and if I think you're scummy, I will get rid of you regardless how shitty my arguments are
Besides, I do think that you're scummy and saying that "you're always like that" is not a convincing argument"

"Hey, wanna vote me again?"

"why aren't you SRing me? If I understood it correctly, you didn't like my previous posts"

"Sigh, I think you're just overthinking it. If you've ever played with scorpio, you should know that he's not the "thinker" type (no offense)"

"Tbh if you think the doc claim is bad, you suck at tone-reading"

are some notable posts which align with their town meta

generally their play just seems very wishy-washy here and very much aligns with what they'd do as scum

Btw just ignore my Last post
I missed angleshoot is about ejji.

[UzayAltay]

i have a few reasons for thinking ejji is scum

early game comments on SK seem incredibly dubious with their comments on SK, and let's just say I also have an angleshot also alluding to the idea that they are SK or at least scum

they don't really seem to ever try to progress the game themselves; almost all their posts where "attempted progression" is made it's just asking people to elaborate on things constantly

in their town games they seem far more blunt and sarcastic, and their progression seems more self-made, things like:

"Haha do you think I care?
I'll tell you that I do not. if you're not progressing the game and if I think you're scummy, I will get rid of you regardless how shitty my arguments are
Besides, I do think that you're scummy and saying that "you're always like that" is not a convincing argument"

"Hey, wanna vote me again?"

"why aren't you SRing me? If I understood it correctly, you didn't like my previous posts"

"Sigh, I think you're just overthinking it. If you've ever played with scorpio, you should know that he's not the "thinker" type (no offense)"

"Tbh if you think the doc claim is bad, you suck at tone-reading"

are some notable posts which align with their town meta

generally their play just seems very wishy-washy here and very much aligns with what they'd do as scum

Btw it is obvious Actually What You are angleshooting
So Why You are keeping silence ?

[Flake]

i have a few reasons for thinking ejji is scum

early game comments on SK seem incredibly dubious with their comments on SK, and let's just say I also have an angleshot also alluding to the idea that they are SK or at least scum

they don't really seem to ever try to progress the game themselves; almost all their posts where "attempted progression" is made it's just asking people to elaborate on things constantly

in their town games they seem far more blunt and sarcastic, and their progression seems more self-made, things like:

"Haha do you think I care?
I'll tell you that I do not. if you're not progressing the game and if I think you're scummy, I will get rid of you regardless how shitty my arguments are
Besides, I do think that you're scummy and saying that "you're always like that" is not a convincing argument"

"Hey, wanna vote me again?"

"why aren't you SRing me? If I understood it correctly, you didn't like my previous posts"

"Sigh, I think you're just overthinking it. If you've ever played with scorpio, you should know that he's not the "thinker" type (no offense)"

"Tbh if you think the doc claim is bad, you suck at tone-reading"

are some notable posts which align with their town meta

generally their play just seems very wishy-washy here and very much aligns with what they'd do as scum

Btw it is obvious Actually What You are angleshooting
So Why You are keeping silence ?

Yeah it's kind of obvious

and because angleshooting is frowned upon and this is kind of a very angleshooty angleshoot

[Rickdaily12]

@Flake
Spoiler:

discussion here is straight up lamist
zero points speculating this without kill credits and with the switches to consider

It's not lamist, it's just me making points from my PoV, is that not acceptable??

And why would I consider switches here, I literally didn't need to at all, first point implies a possibility occurred so switches isn't relevant here, rest of the points are takes regarding kills for which I wouldn't need to mention switches at all

What Scum!Flake is doing here is speculating about information Town cannot possibly know to no benefit in an attempt to pass off useless analysis as Town cred. They want to get us talking about this topic so that we waste time trying to figure out what happened last night when only they have an idea of the actual night targets. It would almost be IIoA, if it weren't for the fact that we even don't know who the kills are credited to, so you can at least pretend not to know about that.

This is why what Town!Flake just did said is virtually nothing of value. You think the kills help solve the game for you, but you don't have a lynch based on the targets because you don't know who the kills were credited to. We don't know if a target was healed, if the vigilante even took a shot, or if a target was struck by two people. What do we gain from it, then?

I see why Scum!Flake brings it up, but not why Town!Flake bothers. So yeah, it looks LAMIST to me.

while also pretending to not know that ejj and i are close friends when we openly pair together on threads where i play
is actually pissing me off

show me evidence

if you dont know this
you have zero fucking business meta reading me and speculating what conversations ejj and i shouldnt be having
on this you can straight up piss off

Uh

am I missing something or am i literally being vilified for speculating something that is potentially helpful to the game?

sorry if you're offended by that but i literally don't understand why you would be

I would almost understand and could be a bit less frustrated if you weren't outright imposing into the nature of our friendship here. It was the fact that you were all like "what the actual fuck, Rick and Ejj don't know each other, this interaction can only be MxM because this is atypical behavior from Rick toward a person he hasn't played with". If you know me well enough to meta read me, you have should have some kind of semblance as to who I'm familiar enough with to have some kind of relationship out of the game with without brashly launching into something like this. This is my first game with Ejj, but a lot of people here know that she and I have history and are close. Chemist should know this too, though I can understand why you wouldn't.

Because you don't know that she and I are close friends, I don't expect you to understand that she literally scum reads me from the outside of every game we play, usually for the reason that she feels we approach the game differently and she doesn't know how to properly think about me due to approach.

But the fact that you tried to reconstruct how you thought our relationship ought to have been and used this as a means to argue that this was pointless mafia theater doesn't sit well with me at all, for the fact that you don't have any place to discuss this topic in any way. I don't know you, but I do know her, and I don't expect to have to explain my friendship with her when people like you try to drag it into the game itself, seeing as it's utterly ridiculous and completely out of line coming from you.

no
nuh uh
your "slip" exchange with flake felt forced and fake as fuck

if you think the slip exchange is fake you are stupid

scum never orchestrates something as intricate as that

because mafia never do a scum theater
right

They do

But you're missing my point entirely

If you'd somewhat analysed what went down you would know that it is too intricate to ever be faked by literally anyone on this site

Flake, I'm sorry, but no. There are pairings of Mafia teams that would certainly not be able to pull some kind of "slip" tactic in the thread on the fly, certainly, but if your argument is that you and Chemist don't have the skill set to pull this off, don't even bother. You don't qualify for this premise.

You and Chemist are two skilled players who I think wouldn't be afraid to attempt something like this if you put yourselves up to it. If your argument is that "it's too difficult to fake" and that "it's too genuine for people at our skill level", it's never going to fly with me, and I don't care how hard you try to dispute this, you're not going to convince me when I know that you and Chemist are smart enough to make something like this work.

Is my take wrong on this? Possibly. But if your argument revolves around difficulty and skill level between you and Chemist, then it's a pretty shitty argument.

Adding this, since it's relevant:

To people who think mine and chemist's interaction is orchestrated

In what world does Mafia come up with

"hey chem, you make a fake slip by including someone who dies you out on it, i'll deepwolf and call you outed scum because i'll say i think you make the slip on someone specifically rather than you knowing the possibility that it could be a slip but not being bothered to remove the slip after the flip of the someone who dies, but then i'll realise it's actually you just knowing the possibility it could be a slip pre-flip and do a completee 180 on you"

like can you all use your brains for a bit

NO ONE ORCHESTRATES THIS AS MAFIA EVER

NO ONE COMES UP WITH THAT PLAN

How about, the same world where Mafia!Chemist says this:

Cool are we just gonna have everyone townslip

Everyone this game so far has literally spent the entire time talking about how this person or that person derped themselves into being called lock town so far. If I were Mafia in this game and I saw everyone narrowing down their PoE lists because of it, then yeah, I can see myself trying to fabricate something like this, and I can totally see other people doing it as Mafia too. This kind of scum theater would also serve a hell of a lot of purpose under the circumstances too. I don't see it going exactly the way you quoted it in the above (not unless you're the biggest troll literally ever and this is exactly how it went), but I can see it getting suggested no problem at all.

Flake, seriously, like how exactly do you plan on expecting us to believe that you wouldn't pull this off as scum because you don't have the skill for it?

I don't like that Rick doesn't think there's merit in analysing the night kills. I'd quote the post but it's huge. Rick during D1 you were eager to discuss possibilities where we find SK early, even though it was far-fetched. I thought your attempt to gauge the towniness of our responses was very town-motivated, because as Flake told me yesterday, having a solid town pool is very important for narrowing down poe. Why discredit Flake's attempt to explain the night kills? I'd think trying to solve them helps us with the game, and scum might even slip while discussing them.

See my response to Flake, but I'll differ in this way:

There is a solid difference between asking everyone what they think our approach to solving a complicated setup when everyone in the game has little or no experience with it, from speculating over information that we do not have. My question dealt with strategy for dealing with a unique game concept and setup that everyone has little/no experience with. Ways of getting everyone on the same page about how to think about strategy and future risks we might have to take as a result. If this were a typical Mafia game, everyone here would have experience or some kind of knowledge about the endgame. No one had that here.

Flake's post was about speculating reasons for why people were killed and who did it. It's common for scum to do in order for pass off as Town, because only they know why people are killed and who killed who and it doesn't actually tell us much when we have no way to tell apart a Vigilante kill from the rest of the Scum. His analysis only said that he can PoE a bit better now, but doesn't actually argue who (players, not the roles) the information implicates.

Our goals here weren't the same either. I was trying to help myself and others better understand how this game shapes out over time, while asking everyone else to give their thoughts to see who sounded the most like genuine and honest Town. I even had to bump the post just to get people to care about it. If no one bothered to remark about Flake's post at all, I don't think he would have cared at all, so I don't think Flake was trying to provoke any slips with this, Town, Scum, or what have you.

[Rickdaily12]

I literally almost fell asleep making that post, so I'll be back after work tomorrow.

Good night, guys.