VFM 49: SK win #rekt

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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby GrumpyGoomba » Mon May 13, 2019 11:43 am

Dash2 wrote:So some things to note is how Goomba didn't do much until Flake started accusing me, and Zucker supposedly skipped until my response to Flake and only my posts as a catchup. Flake himself I'll be going into once I am on my laptop, but I have reason to believe at least one of these are scum.

Tbh I still haven't done anything useful yet... it'll get better I promise.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 am

Dash2 wrote:Rick what are your thoughts on this attempted wagon on me

Attempted wagon? That wasn't how I was reading it. I didn't think you were in any actual danger yet.

I don't really know you and Flake all that well, but I mean, the most I know about the two of you is that Flake is very matter-of-fact when he approaches the game, and really dislikes weak statements without reasoning. I can imagine that he doesn't like gut reads from people just left as they are, but that seems consistent with his play whenever I read games with him in them. As for you, Dash, I just remember that you're a really old player too, and while I think you mishandled yourself when Flake asked you to explain one of your opinions here:

Flake wrote:
Dash2 wrote:
Flake wrote:
Dash2 wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:
Dash2 wrote:Uzay is town honestly

Why do you think so? Just curious.

Because he's being how he always is as town, plus nothing strikes me as scummy.

can you be a bit more specific

No

/vote Dash2

Yeah, here. You kinda got what you deserved there. But I really don't have any reason to SR either you or Flake and I don't think Flake's response to you here wouldn't come from irritated Town. It's another reason why Zucker's really starting to annoy me, and I don't know if it's because he's a VI or not.

Dash2 wrote:So some things to note is how Goomba didn't do much until Flake started accusing me, and Zucker supposedly skipped until my response to Flake and only my posts as a catchup. Flake himself I'll be going into once I am on my laptop, but I have reason to believe at least one of these are scum.

Just quickly skimming back into the thread again, Goomba just seems like a bit of noise. Doesn't seem too opportunistic for me right now, or at least, I didn't see him taking any strong stance unless I'm skimming too hard. Normally this would be more annoying, but again, the game is still pretty fresh and I can forgive that sort of thing right now. I think Zucker has been a bit more opportunistic in comparison to Goomba as it stands.

Chemist, by the way, is it confirmed if Zucker is Seth? Even if it's Seth, I can't get behind thinking Seth has learned literally nothing in the time he's spent with us so far already. I feel like even if this really is him, his approach so far has been poor, even for him.

GrumpyGoomba wrote:Tbh I still haven't done anything useful yet... it'll get better I promise.

I don't like the acknowledgement of not having done anything useful to Dash at all, though. If you're aware that your posts aren't useful, you shouldn't be making them until your intentions are to help out around the thread.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Chemist1422 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:01 pm

btw @Rick

I think the current numbers depend on whether we lynch the SK or not

On D1 that’s always a yes, after more town are dead than scum probably no
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:07 pm

I'm really unsure about Chemist and Phone so far. I want to like Phone in particular as I agree with him a lot already, but I don't remember this much confidence coming from him in my games with him where he was Town. Chemist feels a bit pensive too, but sure, I can buy his school excuse. I just expect him to chime in with more meta reading than only Zucker.

I like Flake's defense of tfios. I don't know if I agree with him about her, but I do really like how he's been approaching the issue.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:18 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:I'm really unsure about Chemist and Phone so far. I want to like Phone in particular as I agree with him a lot already, but I don't remember this much confidence coming from him in my games with him where he was Town. Chemist feels a bit pensive too, but sure, I can buy his school excuse. I just expect him to chime in with more meta reading than only Zucker.

I like Flake's defense of tfios. I don't know if I agree with him about her, but I do really like how he's been approaching the issue.

Did I sound confident? That's new
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:19 pm

Also how did get Dash and Chemist a townread on me from that less posts?
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Or Silver because of my old discord name. Or Mikan because of my new discord name. Or Julian as that's my actual name
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Flake wrote:
Dash2 wrote:If anything, you're being a hypocrite. If I need to go and be specific about Uzay's meta then how about you show me all the games where tfios was town and had a bad entrance. You didn't do that, did you?

difference between being vague when not asked to explain something which should be obvious and remaining vague once asked to explain something unobvious to anyone but you because either you can't be bothered or you can't actually draw similarities between town!uzay and uzay here which can be observed by anyone, in which case i don't see how you even believe your metaread yourself

as for tfios thing

VFM48 (Town):
tfiosforevah wrote:yo whats up

im gonna hard claim cit bc y not


17F (Town):

"Let me get in on that cit claim action"

now play spot why i'd think tfios' entrance in this game would be NAI at worst

Does Flake do things like this when hes scum? Idk tbh

Feels townie though
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Phone0Ix wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:I'm really unsure about Chemist and Phone so far. I want to like Phone in particular as I agree with him a lot already, but I don't remember this much confidence coming from him in my games with him where he was Town. Chemist feels a bit pensive too, but sure, I can buy his school excuse. I just expect him to chime in with more meta reading than only Zucker.

I like Flake's defense of tfios. I don't know if I agree with him about her, but I do really like how he's been approaching the issue.

Did I sound confident? That's new

I mean, the last VFM you and I played, I remember you flailing way more than this as Town, and that contrasts a bit with how you talked about Dash and Seth this time.

I also love the taste of tinfoil, though, so I could just be overthinking it.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Chemist1422 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:21 pm

Dash2 wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:Also how did get Dash and Chemist a townread on me from that less posts?

Mostly because entrance felt natural

Same
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:24 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:Also how did get Dash and Chemist a townread on me from that less posts?

Mostly because entrance felt natural

Same

Same

Unserious LAMIST posts need to exist, agreed?
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:25 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:I'm really unsure about Chemist and Phone so far. I want to like Phone in particular as I agree with him a lot already, but I don't remember this much confidence coming from him in my games with him where he was Town. Chemist feels a bit pensive too, but sure, I can buy his school excuse. I just expect him to chime in with more meta reading than only Zucker.

I like Flake's defense of tfios. I don't know if I agree with him about her, but I do really like how he's been approaching the issue.

Did I sound confident? That's new

I mean, the last VFM you and I played, I remember you flailing way more than this as Town, and that contrasts a bit with how you talked about Dash and Seth this time.

I also love the taste of tinfoil, though, so I could just be overthinking it.

Ah ok, tnx for explaining your read
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:25 pm


I LOVE YOU

Okay, so we're still waiting on two more people, then everyone's checked in.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:25 pm

Flake wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:
Flake wrote:
Dash2 wrote:If anything, you're being a hypocrite. If I need to go and be specific about Uzay's meta then how about you show me all the games where tfios was town and had a bad entrance. You didn't do that, did you?

difference between being vague when not asked to explain something which should be obvious and remaining vague once asked to explain something unobvious to anyone but you because either you can't be bothered or you can't actually draw similarities between town!uzay and uzay here which can be observed by anyone, in which case i don't see how you even believe your metaread yourself

as for tfios thing

VFM48 (Town):
tfiosforevah wrote:yo whats up

im gonna hard claim cit bc y not


17F (Town):

"Let me get in on that cit claim action"

now play spot why i'd think tfios' entrance in this game would be NAI at worst

Does Flake do things like this when hes scum? Idk tbh

Feels townie though

yes i do probably

Bon bon Flake passes test, saying a thing he did could come from scum!Flake!

Flake feels townie
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:26 pm

Dash2 wrote:Chemist do you have anything of your own, instead of agreeing with what I'm saying

Same
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Or Silver because of my old discord name. Or Mikan because of my new discord name. Or Julian as that's my actual name
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:28 pm

Phone0Ix wrote:
Flake wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:
Flake wrote:
Dash2 wrote:If anything, you're being a hypocrite. If I need to go and be specific about Uzay's meta then how about you show me all the games where tfios was town and had a bad entrance. You didn't do that, did you?

difference between being vague when not asked to explain something which should be obvious and remaining vague once asked to explain something unobvious to anyone but you because either you can't be bothered or you can't actually draw similarities between town!uzay and uzay here which can be observed by anyone, in which case i don't see how you even believe your metaread yourself

as for tfios thing

VFM48 (Town):
tfiosforevah wrote:yo whats up

im gonna hard claim cit bc y not


17F (Town):

"Let me get in on that cit claim action"

now play spot why i'd think tfios' entrance in this game would be NAI at worst

Does Flake do things like this when hes scum? Idk tbh

Feels townie though

yes i do probably

Bon bon Flake passes test, saying a thing he did could come from scum!Flake!

Flake feels townie

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I was literally just about to bitch how he just self-metaed and you're rewarding him for doing this now

this is NAI 10000% and this response is just gross
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon May 13, 2019 12:31 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:
Flake wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:
Flake wrote:
Dash2 wrote:If anything, you're being a hypocrite. If I need to go and be specific about Uzay's meta then how about you show me all the games where tfios was town and had a bad entrance. You didn't do that, did you?

difference between being vague when not asked to explain something which should be obvious and remaining vague once asked to explain something unobvious to anyone but you because either you can't be bothered or you can't actually draw similarities between town!uzay and uzay here which can be observed by anyone, in which case i don't see how you even believe your metaread yourself

as for tfios thing

VFM48 (Town):
tfiosforevah wrote:yo whats up

im gonna hard claim cit bc y not


17F (Town):

"Let me get in on that cit claim action"

now play spot why i'd think tfios' entrance in this game would be NAI at worst

Does Flake do things like this when hes scum? Idk tbh

Feels townie though

yes i do probably

Bon bon Flake passes test, saying a thing he did could come from scum!Flake!

Flake feels townie

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I was literally just about to bitch how he just self-metaed and you're rewarding him for doing this now

this is NAI 10000% and this response is just gross

How is self-metaing scummy, and this was the other way around o.O
Like boom townread its bad because selfmeta
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:36 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote: Spoiler: Don't self-meta. Especially, do NOT self-meta to argue that you're Town without being prompted to. I know this one always confuses people because a lot of people like to throw meta at each other and meta rebuttals, but if you're going to allow this and do this yourself then you render every meta argument you ever make as pointless.
Why, you might ask? Well, it's a very simple concept to grasp.
THE ENTIRE POINT TO META ARGUING IS THE POINT THAT [PLAYER X] IS NOT AWARE/ABLE TO STOP DOING [ACTION Y] AS [ALIGNMENT Z].
Too often I see so many arguments getting winded and dumb between people over the discourse of meta, and this point keeps tripping people up. It makes my eyes roll hard both as an in-game player and as a spectator. You cannot, especially when unprompted, argue how you are locked town for blah meta reasons. Especially when they only require interactions in the thread only. If you are fully aware of what you do as Town and how you behave as Town, you directly imply knowledge of how to act as Scum and can at least somewhat mimic it.
The moment anyone says "I'm Town if I do this, and I did this, proving that I'm Town", everything they say after this is bullshit. Even if it's true, even if it's genuine. Aside from being fakeable as hell, it's also a circular logic fallacy, which is a no-no. The reason any rational person gets tripped up in response to something as crazy as this is because you just took the time to admit you have knowledge on how to pass yourself as Town when you are Scum, and once we hit that point everything you say about your meta means nothing.
Which also brings as to a sub add-on:
Don't make someone else self-meta. At that point you're just being a jerk and you should admit not having any valid reason to read that person anymore.
Just let it go. Null read them and revisit that person when you have something more alignment indicative to read them on. Don't put them through this crap, it has a stupid amount of potential to launch into a nasty TvT suicide pact. Just save yourself a huge amount of suffering, whether you're the one doing it, or encouraging others to do it.

(I see myself doing this a lot this game)

TL;DR, it's not that self-meta is Scummy, it's that it's NAI. You can't refer to your own meta to argue whether or not you're Town. Claiming to be aware over aspects of your own meta implies awareness of how to fake your Town meta as Scum.

To be clear, I'm leaning Town on Flake so far, but self meta is always gross and always proves literally nothing reliable about the person doing it. It just proves that the person is aware of how to act and how not to act the day they roll scum.

If you want to TR Flake, there are absolutely reasons to do it, but this isn't one of them.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:38 pm

Flake wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:
Flake wrote:
Phone0Ix wrote:Does Flake do things like this when hes scum? Idk tbh

Feels townie though

yes i do probably

Bon bon Flake passes test, saying a thing he did could come from scum!Flake!

Flake feels townie

i probs do that as scum too

case in point
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Chemist1422 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:41 pm

Dash2 wrote:first friendly reminder of the game that spoiler tag exists so can we stop clogging the thread with long quote chains

Oh did you not hear

They got rid of spoilers for non-trusted

Also I don’t know why you’re under the assumption that I sheeping you and not that I had the idea separately but just posted it later
mist ~ she/her

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(still here for danganronpa i guess)


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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Zucker » Mon May 13, 2019 12:41 pm

Dash2 wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:I don't like how Zucker's "catchup" are only responses to me and they're all shadethrowing posts

/vote Zucker

Clearly you haven’t played with him before

Yes I realized halfway through catching up this was gonna be another one of those players.


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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Dash2 wrote:first friendly reminder of the game that spoiler tag exists so can we stop clogging the thread with long quote chains

What? But... but you're using Franziska as your avatar...

She always loves to point out how I don't have any evidence when I bluff the shit out of her prove that I know what happened.

(but tbr yeah this is why I like to either trim relevant quote chains or spoiler them when they get too big)

Dash2 wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:first friendly reminder of the game that spoiler tag exists so can we stop clogging the thread with long quote chains

Oh did you not hear

They got rid of spoilers for non-trusted

WHAT
WHY
WTF

Oh, right, I forgot this was a thing too.

Yeah, being NCM was not a fun experience at all.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Zucker » Mon May 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Dash2 wrote:If anything, you're being a hypocrite. If I need to go and be specific about Uzay's meta then how about you show me all the games where tfios was town and had a bad entrance. You didn't do that, did you?


Tfios always feels like that with their Day 1 Citizen Claim. ^_^
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Flake omg stop xD
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Zucker » Mon May 13, 2019 12:46 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:Phone is town

I agree


Chemist has been very off.
He doesn’t really add anything new to the conversation.
Dash is only saying Phone is Town because scum wants someone to follow them! ^_^
Qva did it to Seththeking and it worked on him. ^_^
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:47 pm

Yeah, never mind. Zucker is definitely Seth, and that all about confirms that it's the case.

I'm definitely not impressed with his handling of the game so far, then. =/
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