Get rid of the Retributionist Role

[XCodeLyokoX]

I'm sure everyone can empathize with me when I say that whenever I get a mafia role in a ranked game I groan internally. Unless town is savant or consists of trolls...the town win rate is close 90% each game play. Mafia stands no real chance of winning,and if you're NK? ha! you might as well leave. Something needs to be done to level the playing field a bit. I think it should start with the banishment of the Retri role. As mafia, its a team of 4 vs a team of 9 townies! That's already a big advantage...And for NK its 1 vs 9 townies. Why in the world does town need a ret when they already have an advantage? they don't...They have enough people and OP roles as it is...Jailor,Mayor,etc.Please make ranked fun again and get rid of this role

[Sylek]

Remove from Ranked, but not from the entire game.

I agree that it should be left in game, as it can make some games more interesting. It can give town some extra power by undoing the work of the mafia/nk, but the point is to bring someone back.

[legacyofnick]

Change it so that the retributionist sacrifices himself to revive the dead person. This still supplies the role of bringing someone back from the dead (intended) but doesn't allow town to get additional voting power (town regaining a vote). This makes the choice of who you bring back more important as you must bring back someone who can change the game in town's favor.

[Zyprexa2024]

Change it so that the retributionist sacrifices himself to revive the dead person. This still supplies the role of bringing someone back from the dead (intended) but doesn't allow town to get additional voting power (town regaining a vote). This makes the choice of who you bring back more important as you must bring back someone who can change the game in town's favor.

I love this idea, it would make ret so much less OP, as right now if there is a ret mafia's only hope is to accidentally kill and clean jailor early on.

[WindBlqde]

This is coming from a player who rarely plays ranked.

I wouldn't want Retributionist to be removed from the game entirely - I mainly play All Any and it helps make the game really fun. I'm in full support of legacyofnick's ret idea. You should post it in Role Ideas, I'm sure there will be few objections.

[wozearly]

...but if the Ret sacrifices himself for someone AFK, that's an unexpected (and unfair) shaft to the Town.

Also, it's not much fun for the Ret - "Your role is to keep hidden until you're able to sacrifice yourself to bring back someone who will be confirmed and actually has useful abilities. Just pray they're not dumb or AFK."

There have been a variety of alternative suggestions to make the life of the Retri and/or the revived person more difficult while keeping the general spirit of the role intact. For example:

1) Changing priority of the resurrect to be below killing, so a Ret attacked on the night they attempt to revive will not bring anyone back.
2) Making the Ret permanently unable to speak or whisper (similar to blackmailed) after resurrecting, so they cannot easily confirm themselves afterwards by whispering the revived target and have to run the risk of revealing themselves first (dovetails nicely with the first suggestion). Also has the amusing side-effect of making a silent defence on the stand a viable option in games with a confirmed but unidentified retri.
3) Making the resurrected Town member permanently unable to speak or whisper (similar to blackmailed), so they cannot share information from the dead or be used as a whisper co-ordinator
4a) Preventing the resurrected Town member from voting, so Town gains their ability but not their voting power
4b) Preventing the resurrected Town member from using their abilities, so Town only gains the voting power


Removing roles from the game, or from specific modes, really should be a last resort.

[Zyprexa2024]

...but if the Ret sacrifices himself for someone AFK, that's an unexpected (and unfair) shaft to the Town.

Also, it's not much fun for the Ret - "Your role is to keep hidden until you're able to sacrifice yourself to bring back someone who will be confirmed and actually has useful abilities. Just pray they're not dumb or AFK."

There have been a variety of alternative suggestions to make the life of the Retri and/or the revived person more difficult while keeping the general spirit of the role intact. For example:

1) Changing priority of the resurrect to be below killing, so a Ret attacked on the night they attempt to revive will not bring anyone back.
2) Making the Ret permanently unable to speak or whisper (similar to blackmailed) after resurrecting, so they cannot easily confirm themselves afterwards by whispering the revived target and have to run the risk of revealing themselves first (dovetails nicely with the first suggestion). Also has the amusing side-effect of making a silent defence on the stand a viable option in games with a confirmed but unidentified retri.
3) Making the resurrected Town member permanently unable to speak or whisper (similar to blackmailed), so they cannot share information from the dead or be used as a whisper co-ordinator
4a) Preventing the resurrected Town member from voting, so Town gains their ability but not their voting power
4b) Preventing the resurrected Town member from using their abilities, so Town only gains the voting power


Removing roles from the game, or from specific modes, really should be a last resort.

first off, if you are worried about roles not being fun, then change mafioso, medium, TPs and such to be less boring. I would say do 2/3 (they are the same) and I think you are right in that it should just be nerfed.

[Yemac]

Stop suggesting that ret should sacrifice themselves. It still confirms too much and if I got ret, I wouldn't wanna revive someone only to die. It's just stupid. You basically die by N2 and it makes retri's not want to revive (and if you say 'well that's the point' then why not remove ret?). By the way, it makes it for evils impossible to claim or cc ret because ret dies.

[Watt20I5]

No role should be removed from specific gamemodes. Just replace it with Trapper so it'll work in all gamemodes, and make Trapper Jailor and Mayor part of town power.

Para's retributionist also works PROVIDED ONLY that it is in Town power, and not town protective.

uwu town power

I think town power would actually fix alot of these issues people have. The only issue is that creates the other problem with role diversity.

[Yemac]

Or remove the TS spot and change it to RT or to NB

[Watt20I5]

Or remove the TS spot and change it to RT or to NB

R A N K E D - I S - N O T - T H E - O N L Y - M O D E

[Watt20I5]

Or remove the TS spot and change it to RT or to NB

R A N K E D - I S - N O T - T H E - O N L Y - M O D E

Exactly. Why remove or ruin a good role like Ret that is perfectly fine in all other game modes, because it's causing issues in Ranked?
All Any: It's meant to be unbalanced and chaotic. Ret fits in fine.
Classic: Meant to be newbie mode that sides with town on the win rates. Ret fits in fine.
Custom modes: Ret can be put in or removed depending on the list creator.
Coven modes: Not an expert on them, but I never really hear complaints about ret in them either. But the entire mode isn't exactly balanced.

The majority of people who want Ret removed from play are people who play Ranked.

So either just pull the role from Ranked, or change up the role list.

I could argue about it not being balanced in those modes but my point was changing slots wont fix the game overall.

[mdb1023]

Honestly, the role is incredibly broken, but the concept is kind of neat. I think the better way is to rework the role: make it so that the retributionist becomes the role it "revives" rather than just straight up reviving it. and maybe make it unable to do so on unique roles.

[mdb1023]

[MysticMismagius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWizDna1XO4

I’ve already commented my opinion about your idea, so I’m just going to link it here.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55611&start=850#p3156639
If the link is broken or you don’t feel like clicking, the TL;DR version is that making Ret into a trauma patient would make it too similar to Amne to be able to justify both of them being in the same game.

[mdb1023]

Well you have roles like consort and escort that are virtually the same role.

[MysticMismagius]

Yeah we shouldn’t add more roles that are like that.

[GarlicPops]

For the people that are arguing about the role being balanced on other modes, let me compare Retri to Bodyguard.

Many people don't like to play as bodyguard since when you do your job, you die. But you don't see people complaining the Bodyguard should be changed or anything.

The retributionist on the other hand is INSANELY overpowered in ranked and sometimes even in other modes. It confirms both himself and the person who was revived, any mediums and info from dead people, all of this with extra voting power, making it essentially a 11 v 5 instead of a 10 v 5. It was mathematically proven that evil's chance of winning in a game where a Retributionist revives is reduced to 8% or lower. So making the retributionist die when he revives will grant all of his benefits but without adding extra voting power, pretty much like how the Bodyguard works.

So the balance suggetions would be:
Retributionist
Abilities:
- Sacrifice your own life force to revive a dead Town member.
Attributes:
- If you get attacked, the ressurection will be interrupted

This will make so the Retri will actevely have to wait for an important town role to die, make it more difficult to confirm himself, easier for evils to claim it, and force tps to stay on him to revive a very important town role such as a mayor or jailor. This will keep all of the Retri's positive perks without breaking the game, pretty much how the bodyguard works.

And before people start complaining, balance IS important and ranked IS a priotity when it comes to balance. Again, you die as bodyguard and nobody is complaining, so stop thinking retri shouldn't be nerfed.

[MysticMismagius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWizDna1XO4

I’ve already commented my opinion about your idea, so I’m just going to link it here.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55611&start=850#p3156639
If the link is broken or you don’t feel like clicking, the TL;DR version is that making Ret into a trauma patient would make it too similar to Amne to be able to justify both of them being in the same game.

Uh, how?

Basically the only similarity they have is that they both become a dead role. In almost every other aspect they are largely dissimilar; one is benign and swingy, one is town aligned and not nearly as swingy. One wants to choose a role in the interest of their own win chances, whereas the other wants to choose a role in the interest of Town's win chances. The way in which a Trauma Patient would go about playing is largely different to Amnesiac in general, similarly to how Escort and Consort would not go about playing in a similar way.

If the Amne picks a Town role (which happens often, either because it’s the majority and Amne thinks he’ll have an easier time, or he gets pressured into it), it’s the exact same as a townie Trauma Patient.

[mdb1023]

For the people that are arguing about the role being balanced on other modes, let me compare Retri to Bodyguard.

Many people don't like to play as bodyguard since when you do your job, you die. But you don't see people complaining the Bodyguard should be changed or anything.

The retributionist on the other hand is INSANELY overpowered in ranked and sometimes even in other modes. It confirms both himself and the person who was revived, any mediums and info from dead people, all of this with extra voting power, making it essentially a 11 v 5 instead of a 10 v 5. It was mathematically proven that evil's chance of winning in a game where a Retributionist revives is reduced to 8% or lower. So making the retributionist die when he revives will grant all of his benefits but without adding extra voting power, pretty much like how the Bodyguard works.

So the balance suggetions would be:
Retributionist
Abilities:
- Sacrifice your own life force to revive a dead Town member.
Attributes:
- If you get attacked, the ressurection will be interrupted

This will make so the Retri will actevely have to wait for an important town role to die, make it more difficult to confirm himself, easier for evils to claim it, and force tps to stay on him to revive a very important town role such as a mayor or jailor. This will keep all of the Retri's positive perks without breaking the game, pretty much how the bodyguard works.

And before people start complaining, balance IS important and ranked IS a priotity when it comes to balance. Again, you die as bodyguard and nobody is complaining, so stop thinking retri shouldn't be nerfed.

I actually wouldn't mind this change, either, but i feel like a LOT of people would get this role and just leave night 1 because they don't care enough about the game to be someone who sits around and waits to die.

[GrumpyGoomba]

I can actually see a sacrificial retri working nicely... as of now retri increases the town's win rate way too much to be called sufficiently balanced.

[Metalknightmon]

Retributionist is useless almost all turns but if used well it can be decisive in one turn.

[Yemac]

Or remove the TS spot and change it to RT or to NB

R A N K E D - I S - N O T - T H E - O N L Y - M O D E

*in ranked. -.-'

[Transcender]

Or remove the TS spot and change it to RT or to NB

R A N K E D - I S - N O T - T H E - O N L Y - M O D E

*in ranked. -.-'

R E T R I - I S - S T I L L - U N B A L A N C E D

[GrumpyGoomba]

Or remove the TS spot and change it to RT or to NB

R A N K E D - I S - N O T - T H E - O N L Y - M O D E

*in ranked. -.-'

R E T R I - I S - S T I L L - U N B A L A N C E D

Rip retri