Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one
So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.
If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.
For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319
For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written. So heck off I know what I'm doing.
Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?
Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one
So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.
If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.
For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319
For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written. So heck off I know what I'm doing.
Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?
Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?
Possibly. Or maybe I made this shit good role idea for a certain role idea tourney so I could argue for it and try to win with this obviously BackAssWards fucking shit ass amazing role.
Brilliand wrote:Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?
Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?
Possibly. Or maybe I made this shit good role idea for a certain role idea tourney so I could argue for it and try to win with this obviously BackAssWards fucking shit ass amazing role.
That would be sweet. Good on ya for challenging yourself instead of using the best role you ever made like I did.
If only that tourney had enough contestants to actually happen...
This role is good enough to be in the game. If it needs nerfing or even buffing in any way to make it more balanced, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one
So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.
If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.
For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319
For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written. So heck off I know what I'm doing.
Kombinator1991 wrote:NOPE.
Arso is hard as it is. We don't need to nerf it further by giving a counter role.
Vampires have a counter, give me a reason other than town being shit at finding evils that the game deserves VH
Well you should of done a https link.
Vampires are bad. Vampire hunters are bad. Dracula's Palace is basically a confirmed vamp win. The game is a hellscape already and if a firefighter is in the game it confirms there is an arsonist and shouldn't be in the game.
If you really read that post on role ideas you would know about the way you present it.
It's because the conversion mechanic with vampires Is unbalanced, you'd need to rework a lot of things to fix conversions
_
Mace8937 wrote:Honestly?
This role is good enough to be in the game. If it needs nerfing or even buffing in any way to make it more balanced, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts
So it doesn't revolve around one role
It would be nice if its abilities where useful aganist other roles.
The problem with counter roles it's only purpose is to keep a role from being overpowered and counter roles are generally boring.
A fix would be so it effects mafia and other Nks, but we practically have that with Doctors, doctors don't save ignites which is understandable but if you think ignite is too powerful maybe have doctors save them
I don't agree with that change but it's Far better then adding a counter role with one purpose
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one
So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.
If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.
For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319
For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written. So heck off I know what I'm doing.
Kombinator1991 wrote:NOPE.
Arso is hard as it is. We don't need to nerf it further by giving a counter role.
Vampires have a counter, give me a reason other than town being shit at finding evils that the game deserves VH
Well you should of done a https link.
Vampires are bad. Vampire hunters are bad. Dracula's Palace is basically a confirmed vamp win. The game is a hellscape already and if a firefighter is in the game it confirms there is an arsonist and shouldn't be in the game.
If you really read that post on role ideas you would know about the way you present it.
It's because the conversion mechanic with vampires Is unbalanced, you'd need to rework a lot of things to fix conversions
_
Mace8937 wrote:Honestly?
This role is good enough to be in the game. If it needs nerfing or even buffing in any way to make it more balanced, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts
So it doesn't revolve around one role
It would be nice if its abilities where useful aganist other roles.
The problem with counter roles it's only purpose is to keep a role from being overpowered and counter roles are generally boring.
A fix would be so it effects mafia and other Nks, but we practically have that with Doctors, doctors don't save ignites which is understandable but if you think ignite is too powerful maybe have doctors save them
I don't agree with that change but it's Far better then adding a counter role with one purpose
Jackparrot wrote:I do not think this would make a good role in-game as it only counters Arso, which does not need countering as it is the weakest role in the game.
/Nosupport
Doth VH counter-eth Vampire? I believe 't so. If said role shall be declined, I call out 'Hypocrisy!' to thine rulers in red text names.
Jackparrot wrote:I do not think this would make a good role in-game as it only counters Arso, which does not need countering as it is the weakest role in the game.
/Nosupport
Doth VH counter-eth Vampire? I believe 't so. If said role shall be declined, I call out 'Hypocrisy!' to thine rulers in red text names.
Vampire is a team tho and an arsonist is solo
Mine point still stands. If the glove doth fit, you must acquit'eth.
(Still tho, VH and Vamps somehow work. So this role is basically a VH. So if VH should be in the game, so should this)
Flake wrote:It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.
In a setup where Arsonists are overwhelmingly powerful (3 Arsonist All Any game?), the Firefighter probably won't be able to do much to stem the tide.
Flake wrote:The role is overdependent on the existence of one role in order to have any utility; if the role (Arsonist) doesn't exist at any point, Firefighter just becomes a Citizen, and Citizens are not good in ToS due to ToS' lack of dependence on non-linear discussion and overdependence on night actions. This is especially a prevalent issue considering that in all game modes (bar Custom for which any role could potentially have confirmed existence and Rainbow which barely anyone plays), either Arsonist is not guaranteed to exist, or cannot exist at all.
Vampire Hunter is a garbage role for the same reason, except it can actually be argued that it's existence is warranted more so than Firefighter; Dracula's Palace is a somewhat prevalent mode for which Vampires are guaranteed to spawn. Also, when Vampires do not exist in any given game state, Vampire Hunter doesn't become a straight up Citizen like Firefighter does, it becomes a one-shot Vigilante. It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.
Mace8937 wrote:Flake is overdependent on the existence of one role in order to have any utility; if the role (Arsonist) doesn't exist at any point, Flake just becomes a Citizen, and Citizens are not good in ToS due to ToS' lack of dependence on non-linear discussion and overdependence on night actions. This is especially a prevalent issue considering that in all game modes (bar Custom for which any role could potentially have confirmed existence and Rainbow which barely anyone plays), either Arsonist is not guaranteed to exist, or cannot exist at all.
Vampire Hunter is a garbage role for the same reason, except it can actually be argued that it's existence is warranted more so than Flake; Dracula's Palace is a somewhat prevalent mode for which Vampires are guaranteed to spawn. Also, when Vampires do not exist in any given game state, Vampire Hunter doesn't become a straight up Citizen like Flake does, it becomes a one-shot Vigilante. It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.
This thread has been a fleeting example, of how poorly moderated this subforum is. If the RI Mod team were atleast mildly adequate, this thread would've been removed a week or 2 ago. However, it has not been removed, and this shows the RI Mod team's skill, or lack thereof. I believe we need new management.
Flake wrote:Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas
I see an announcement thread listing you as one of the people who are now Role Ideas moderators.
Are you not actually willing to moderate Role Ideas?
Flake stepped down from moderating a few weeks ago.
Flake should visit r/suicidebywords
also.
Flake wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This thread has been a fleeting example, of how poorly moderated this subforum is. If the RI Mod team were atleast mildly adequate, this thread would've been removed a week or 2 ago. However, it has not been removed, and this shows the RI Mod team's skill, or lack thereof. I believe we need new management.
Good day.
A main incentive of the RI subforum is for people to have the freedom to share their ideas, and deleting threads in RI irrespective of whether the role is deemed to be good or bad is actively discouraging that
If it were the case that role ideas deemed to be bad would be deleted, then the overwhelming majority of threads in the RI subforum would be deleted, which obviously should not happen
Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas
Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one
So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.
If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.
For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319
For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written. So heck off I know what I'm doing.
Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?
Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?
Possibly. Or maybe I made this shit good role idea for a certain role idea tourney so I could argue for it and try to win with this obviously BackAssWards fucking shit ass amazing role.
1) Roles that depend on, exist to counter or copy abilities from roles being generated in the game, or fill the same niche as other existing roles.
Roles which depend on another role to be generated can cause a role to be confirmed to be in the game if the dependent role is confirmed to be in the game, and the dependent role to be confirmed to not be in the game if the role is confirmed to not be in the game as well. These roles are then easily known to be in the game and as a result of this, players will either actively act to counter such a role, causing the role to have an unfair possibility in winning, or actively act harmoniously with the role since they know that certain role is in the game and trusts them.
Roles which exist to counter another role generated in the game makes the role only existent to give less power to a certain role, therefore not functional alone. Additionally, due to the role only sometimes being generated when the aforementioned role is in the game, the power drawback occurs inconsistently since the drawback only occurs when this role is generated, and can link with role dependency described above.
Roles which copy the abilities of another role generated in the game can be inconsistent with power due to some abilities of roles being more powerful, including roles that can kill which can raise the amount of deaths per night, and more suitable to certain alignments; the ability to roleblock or similar obstruction ability is more practical to an evil role than a protection ability.
Roles which are very similar to another existent role with some minor alterations means the role is most likely a less balanced duplicate of the existent role, since the role most likely includes an unnecessary additional ability which may increase the variability of the role or make it too complex compared to the existent role. Therefore, if the role was to be smoothed out, it will then become an exact duplicate of the existent role and unoriginal.
Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.
Oooooooo Mister Power over here!
And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.
But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather get off topic lol.
1) Roles that depend on, exist to counter or copy abilities from roles being generated in the game, or fill the same niche as other existing roles.
Roles which depend on another role to be generated can cause a role to be confirmed to be in the game if the dependent role is confirmed to be in the game, and the dependent role to be confirmed to not be in the game if the role is confirmed to not be in the game as well. These roles are then easily known to be in the game and as a result of this, players will either actively act to counter such a role, causing the role to have an unfair possibility in winning, or actively act harmoniously with the role since they know that certain role is in the game and trusts them.
Roles which exist to counter another role generated in the game makes the role only existent to give less power to a certain role, therefore not functional alone. Additionally, due to the role only sometimes being generated when the aforementioned role is in the game, the power drawback occurs inconsistently since the drawback only occurs when this role is generated, and can link with role dependency described above.
Roles which copy the abilities of another role generated in the game can be inconsistent with power due to some abilities of roles being more powerful, including roles that can kill which can raise the amount of deaths per night, and more suitable to certain alignments; the ability to roleblock or similar obstruction ability is more practical to an evil role than a protection ability.
Roles which are very similar to another existent role with some minor alterations means the role is most likely a less balanced duplicate of the existent role, since the role most likely includes an unnecessary additional ability which may increase the variability of the role or make it too complex compared to the existent role. Therefore, if the role was to be smoothed out, it will then become an exact duplicate of the existent role and unoriginal.
I don't see anything wrong tbh imho. smh my head
Brilliand wrote:
BS4125 wrote:
(the deep magic)
Yes, but that has already been said many times in this thread.
OP, would you please lock this thread? It really doesn't need any more commentary.
Make me. Tell the RI Mods to lock it, not likes its their job or anything
After looking through the threads history, there have been many necrobumps and off-topic posts made. Due to this and also being listed as a Role Idea not to make from frequent creations despite this role being labelled as not balanced beforehand, this thread has been locked.
Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.
Oooooooo Mister Power over here!
And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.
But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather get off topic lol.