MysticMismagius wrote:This sounds good in theory, but is a breeding ground for gamethrowers in practice. Here is a non-exhaustive list of the ways Mafia can gamethrow if they target each other:
-Mafioso/GF intentionally killing their own teammates
-Framer framing the GF so that he pings as suspicious to the Sheriff
-Consort continuously roleblocking the Mafioso/GF so they can’t kill, Consig so they can’t look for roles, or any other important member of the Mafia so they can’t do their thing.
-Blackmailer blackmailing his own crew so they can’t speak, especially when the Town is sus of them.
Forger/Janitor wasting their charges on Mafia members who probably aren’t going to die.
So /nosupport on this change. Way too dangerous.
The game already has mechanics in place that discourage griefing/gamehthrowing. Not allowing Mafia roles to target each other counts among them. You wouldn't put a button in place that allows an Arsonist to douse themselves without a Witch/Trans, so I don't see why we should put a button that allows Mafiosos to intentionally kill their teammates.NyanCats4Days wrote:Isn't that why the report button is a thing?MysticMismagius wrote:This sounds good in theory, but is a breeding ground for gamethrowers in practice. Here is a non-exhaustive list of the ways Mafia can gamethrow if they target each other:
-Mafioso/GF intentionally killing their own teammates
-Framer framing the GF so that he pings as suspicious to the Sheriff
-Consort continuously roleblocking the Mafioso/GF so they can’t kill, Consig so they can’t look for roles, or any other important member of the Mafia so they can’t do their thing.
-Blackmailer blackmailing his own crew so they can’t speak, especially when the Town is sus of them.
Forger/Janitor wasting their charges on Mafia members who probably aren’t going to die.
So /nosupport on this change. Way too dangerous.
Isn't that why banning is a thing?
The chances of someone killing own team mates is the same chance of someone revealing all mafia names to the town
Just report it
NyanCats4Days wrote:3 people left
Transporter
Framer
Mafioso
You see why the mafioso should target the framer?
Mafia needs a buff. And this is it
Villagerlover wrote:I see no real reason to implement this at all.
The only "good" I can see coming from this is to deceive spies. But I don't think the Spy should even be allowed to see mafia visits at all cause it just hard counters them.
So overall, it doesn't make sense to me to come up with a hard counter to a hard counter.
Villagerlover wrote:I see no real reason to implement this at all.
The only "good" I can see coming from this is to deceive spies. But I don't think the Spy should even be allowed to see mafia visits at all cause it just hard counters them.
So overall, it doesn't make sense to me to come up with a hard counter to a hard counter.
Mikemk wrote:Villagerlover wrote:I see no real reason to implement this at all.
The only "good" I can see coming from this is to deceive spies. But I don't think the Spy should even be allowed to see mafia visits at all cause it just hard counters them.
So overall, it doesn't make sense to me to come up with a hard counter to a hard counter.
What would be left for Spy? BMG doesn't remove roles with achievements, and yet bugging is useless.
James2 wrote:There are no valid arguments against this proposal, therefore it should be implemented.
James2 wrote:Stupidity and gamethrowing are not valid reasons for restricting the freedom of action of other players.
Because people will gamethrow much easier and much faster if you give them this opportunity. I’m sure you’ve seen how many Mafia members would just leave N1 before the ELO change, because they feel certain they’re going to lose. The problem would be orders of magnitude worse if they could just kill off all their teammates and then get themselves hanged, bypassing the ELO hit while ending the game as fast as they can.James2 wrote:I don't see any reason why mafia killers shouldn't be able to target other mafia.
James2 wrote:Stupidity and gamethrowing are not valid reasons for restricting the freedom of action of other players.
MysticMismagius wrote:This sounds good in theory, but is a breeding ground for gamethrowers in practice. Here is a non-exhaustive list of the ways Mafia can gamethrow if they target each other:
-Mafioso/GF intentionally killing their own teammates
-Framer framing the GF so that he pings as suspicious to the Sheriff
-Consort continuously roleblocking the Mafioso/GF so they can’t kill, Consig so they can’t look for roles, or any other important member of the Mafia so they can’t do their thing.
-Blackmailer blackmailing his own crew so they can’t speak, especially when the Town is sus of them.
Forger/Janitor wasting their charges on Mafia members who probably aren’t going to die.
So /nosupport on this change. Way too dangerous.
I assume you’re talking about the Potion Master and Necromancer, who can target other Coven members (and in Necromancer’s case, herself) with certain abilities of theirs. The abilities that these roles can target their teammates with are only protective abilities: the PM’s healing potion, and any dead TP role the Necromancer can reanimate.Google wrote:do a coven like thing were you cant target other mafia with things like killing
MysticMismagius wrote:I assume you’re talking about the Potion Master and Necromancer, who can target other Coven members (and in Necromancer’s case, herself) with certain abilities of theirs. The abilities that these roles can target their teammates with are only protective abilities: the PM’s healing potion, and any dead TP role the Necromancer can reanimate.Google wrote:do a coven like thing were you cant target other mafia with things like killing
How many healing abilities does the Mafia have? None. Equating this to the two Coven roles that can sometimes target their teammates doesn’t work.
Google wrote:Ambusher would work, Gonna give you this one. It kind of acts like Crusader without the defense.MysticMismagius wrote:I assume you’re talking about the Potion Master and Necromancer, who can target other Coven members (and in Necromancer’s case, herself) with certain abilities of theirs. The abilities that these roles can target their teammates with are only protective abilities: the PM’s healing potion, and any dead TP role the Necromancer can reanimate.Google wrote:do a coven like thing were you cant target other mafia with things like killing
How many healing abilities does the Mafia have? None. Equating this to the two Coven roles that can sometimes target their teammates doesn’t work.
disg would, why the actual fuck would you disguise as your own mafia? The only thing Disguiser does even a little bit well is pretend there are less dead Mafia than there actually are.
Framer would as frames are obvious, “HELL no!” - The Godfather
MysticMismagius wrote:Google wrote:Ambusher would work, Gonna give you this one. It kind of acts like Crusader without the defense.MysticMismagius wrote:I assume you’re talking about the Potion Master and Necromancer, who can target other Coven members (and in Necromancer’s case, herself) with certain abilities of theirs. The abilities that these roles can target their teammates with are only protective abilities: the PM’s healing potion, and any dead TP role the Necromancer can reanimate.Google wrote:do a coven like thing were you cant target other mafia with things like killing
How many healing abilities does the Mafia have? None. Equating this to the two Coven roles that can sometimes target their teammates doesn’t work.
disg would, why the actual fuck would you disguise as your own mafia? The only thing Disguiser does even a little bit well is pretend there are less dead Mafia than there actually are.
Framer would as frames are obvious, “HELL no!” - The Godfather
MysticMismagius wrote:You can’t quote away the impact that gamethrowers and stupid people have on the game. In fact, changes have been made recently to account for their actions because they impacted the game so much. So to suggest we should all just ignore the possibility of more rampant gamethrowing and stupidity as a result of a change that makes gamethrowing and stupidity easier to accomplish is osmium dense.
And before you give me the “just report it” line, know this: rules, under any system, are not a preventative measure for undesired behavior. The rules do not stop people from doing bad things. They only punish people for doing them after the fact. ToS’s Trial System is no exception.
James2 wrote:MysticMismagius wrote:You can’t quote away the impact that gamethrowers and stupid people have on the game. In fact, changes have been made recently to account for their actions because they impacted the game so much. So to suggest we should all just ignore the possibility of more rampant gamethrowing and stupidity as a result of a change that makes gamethrowing and stupidity easier to accomplish is osmium dense.
And before you give me the “just report it” line, know this: rules, under any system, are not a preventative measure for undesired behavior. The rules do not stop people from doing bad things. They only punish people for doing them after the fact. ToS’s Trial System is no exception.
Perhaps we should just replace all ToS players with robots that would never gamethrow or act dumb.
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