Chemist1422 wrote:This is just an SK if it makes its best play, which is attacking every night
Otherwise its kpn is too low
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Bluedetroyer wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Kill(s) per night
goldtrotter wrote:Bluedetroyer wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Kill(s) per night
That is supposed to be the tradeoff.
DragonClaw66 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Bluedetroyer wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Kill(s) per night
That is supposed to be the tradeoff.
A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.
goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Bluedetroyer wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Kill(s) per night
That is supposed to be the tradeoff.
A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.
Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.
Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person
DragonClaw66 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Bluedetroyer wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Kill(s) per night
That is supposed to be the tradeoff.
A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.
Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.
Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person
That basically gives it the choice of being the Serial Killer, Werewolf, or Serial Killer with an unstoppable attack. Now it's too similar to two Neutral Killings. I really don't think that you can change the role in a beneficial way.
goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Bluedetroyer wrote:goldtrotter wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
What is KPN?
Kill(s) per night
That is supposed to be the tradeoff.
A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.
Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.
Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person
That basically gives it the choice of being the Serial Killer, Werewolf, or Serial Killer with an unstoppable attack. Now it's too similar to two Neutral Killings. I really don't think that you can change the role in a beneficial way.
What if I left it as it was in the original post, but made it a mafia member instead? So it would be like an independent mafioso who could power up their attacks over time, but would be able to kill independently of the mafioso/godfather.
Chemist1422 wrote:Still adds to mafia KP. This role is too weak to be an NK but too powerful to be part of a faction.
Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.
goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.
1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).
Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack
Chemist1422 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.
1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).
Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack
I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.
goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.
1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).
Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack
I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.
They all kill differently though. Ambusher kills one random visitor, Godfather/Mafioso kill by choosing someone, Electrican is required to power up after every attack, and because of this delay has the potential to do more damage then any other mafia role.
Chemist1422 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.
1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).
Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack
I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.
They all kill differently though. Ambusher kills one random visitor, Godfather/Mafioso kill by choosing someone, Electrican is required to power up after every attack, and because of this delay has the potential to do more damage then any other mafia role.
Which makes it a lot more powerful than any other mafia role. The role is OP as mafia but UP as NK and doesn't work in a ToS environment. It's not a good role.
Chemist1422 wrote:Okay but that doesn't make the concept any less flawed
goldtrotter wrote:Chemist1422 wrote:Okay but that doesn't make the concept any less flawed
Depends on what you think the concept is. The concept as I see it is a role that can get more powerful over time, but it is a temporary effect, much like charging a ray gun would be like.
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