Achilles wrote:Framer buff
I have made changes to have frames be permanent instead of for a single night. This should be a very large buff to the Framer and allow a better meta for the Mafia to develop. This change is expected to go live next week after the holidays.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:Achilles wrote:Framer buff
I have made changes to have frames be permanent instead of for a single night. This should be a very large buff to the Framer and allow a better meta for the Mafia to develop. This change is expected to go live next week after the holidays.
While I agree that Framer needed a buff, I would also argue that Framer is not mechanically sound, so to speak. What I mean is that, even if it had perfectly good power(not too strong, not too weak), it will still not work very well in-game. This is because it is a hardcounter, meaning that it is built to defeat just 1(or in this case 2) roles in the game. Because of this, buffing Framer does not make it more balanced, it is only weakening Sheriff and Investigator, and for this reason, I do not support a Framer buff.
Achilles wrote:This is why I hate doing balance changes. Everytime it's an immediate hatred of any change, polls and rage wanting it reverted and I end up wasting a bunch of my time. You realize that this Framer change only puts it on par with dousing and hexing that are both permanent?
Post your suggested Framer changes that you think are better than this and I will read over and consider them.
orangeandblack5 wrote:Edit: lol bringing in Hexing and Framing those permanent frames were already considered problematic
orangeandblack5 wrote:Also keep in mind that you being here, giving us thoughts on balance changes before they go live, and reacting to the feedback you're getting, is perfect. I for one am happy that this is happening, because this is literally exactly what I love to see a dev team do. Be transparent, update the community, and keep an ear to the ground. Don't listen to them all of the time, but don't block them out either - so all in all, I would like to commend you, despite my harshness towards this particular buff.
DragonClaw66 wrote:Framer Overhaul
TurdPile wrote:orangeandblack5 wrote:Edit: lol bringing in Hexing and Framing those permanent frames were already considered problematic
IMO, the perma-frame for hex master makes sense, because its an effect that sticks with you until the hex triggers, likewise with dousing, stays until it procs. Framing seems to be on a different level because it doesn't really "trigger", it persists. Perhaps make it so its permanent UNTIL an investigative checks said person, in which case it then clears the frame? This would force Framer to either re-frame said person, or let the TI re-check said person to prove/disprove a frame. This would also provide different avenues of thought (ie, should a lookout be on the person being re-checked, or is it a waste of time, etc etc). Spitballing here... no clue how that would play out in the real world.
Achilles wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Framer Overhaul
Having Framer swap the information investigator sees instead of just seeing the framer feedback is interesting. Doing a double selection night menu is problematic. I’m trying to do changes that don’t distract Client guys too much while they work on Unity. If this ends up being the chosen change it will be a while before this comes out.
Not a fan of removing existing roles like Disguiser.
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