Mystoc wrote:based on feedback everything gave me i have decided to buff the role so it can cover for it being attacked better (enthralled could have whispered behind its back and planned to attack you if you didn't know this you cant use the sirens defense ability has an excuse to why you're immune to an enthralleds attack)
and it's just an all around small buff to in general so the buff is
enthralled can no longer whisper or be whispered too
BasicFourLife wrote:Mystoc wrote:based on feedback everything gave me i have decided to buff the role so it can cover for it being attacked better (enthralled could have whispered behind its back and planned to attack you if you didn't know this you cant use the sirens defense ability has an excuse to why you're immune to an enthralleds attack)
and it's just an all around small buff to in general so the buff is
enthralled can no longer whisper or be whispered too
I didn't understand it completely, so the town knows which player is enthralled?
Also this role should be NC since it causes total chaos with its killings and captives and it completely changes the game.
For example you thrill a Forger and let him out to kill.
The Forger still has his goal, but now Mafia can literally choose to kill 2 people at night.
This role seems kind of unbalanced for a NK role, but these are just my thoughts.
BasicFourLife wrote:This role can't be balanced correctly, because either the Town or the Mafia is going to have an advantage since if you make a smart Town / Mafia kill, they can just start killing suspicious people however they like. This can end up for example a thrilles Medium killing multiple evils in a row. This role is not directly OP, but it makes other factions OP. Why isn't there a choice to vote if thus role is balanced or not? This is just my feedback. I feel like this role would need some balancing, before it going to the TG.
Aviel wrote:Personally this role is very confusing, and would be hard to learn, but eh.
/support
BasicFourLife wrote:Aviel wrote:Personally this role is very confusing, and would be hard to learn, but eh.
i give a night by night example of how the role works why don't you read that?
/support
Uhm, bump much?
Mystoc wrote:submitted to TG for anyone who has no idea what the role does cause its very wordy
read the in game example section, it explains perfectly how the role would work
ThotDesolator wrote:If the siren makes the captive do whatever she wants, shouldn't she choose who to kill?
sunbird1002 wrote:Even if this was a small necro-bump, I would've posted anyway on the concept of this role.
While I don't think I would ever 'like' the idea, as this is ShadowWalker 2.0 with even slower killing, perhaps that is because of my lack of imagination. However, this role of course lacks control, which only really is made up for its jailing ability, as it can jail key town memebers. However, for that, it is keeping at a slower killing pace.
However, what are my actual observations? Here they are:
1. It can be very well argued that the jailing ability can harm more than help this role in some situations, such as jailing the last mafia. This can happen, if it feels like the other people are too likely to be protected. However, not only does the Siren then lose a kill, from the Mafia, a very powerful resource with these slower killing roles, a more astute town would note this and brush out the last mafia altogether. This kidnapping is a confirmed roleblock, which could mean that the Spirit could help town. This is one of the more long-shotty ideas, but there are far more well based others.
you can release the person you jail since you know the role of the person u jail/imprison you know its in your best intrest to realese them,
i did just realized kill messages would give away an evil is enthralled i will need to change it so when an enthralled killer kills it say person was killed by the killers role and not the entralled
2. Its lack of control is again one of the most unique and underpowering things about this role. It can't choose who to kill, so obviously it lacks power. Whether the way that you deal with that is the best way I'll discuss later...
its win condtion is unquie to though if it has everyone alive is entthralled it wins so it not choosing who the enthralled kill isnt the biggest deal
3. People under the influence of a song being removed from stopping the Siren from winning can be unfair, as they may have full ability to deal with the Siren. This isn't my biggest gripe with this role, but it does mean that more likely than not, unless the person enthralled is a very important role, that they would simply be lynched. They would die anyway to any other role, so, as I said, not a real gripe.
you mean the win condtion of the game ending? the person can still use abilties against the siren every other night it isnt enthralled and still vote against them
4. This role swings around the rolelist, namely the TIs. I don't really like that this role hard counters Sheriff, and counters Investigator, but then is at the mercy of Scientist, Lookout and Tracker. The chances of these roles being rolled are,of course, random. Either it should counter no TIs, or all TIs, otherwise the role's ability swings too much around whether the TIs are certain roles, which is unhealthy for this role. I would recommend making the visits to protect someone the ones which are seen to Lookouts and Trackers, and for them to override the enthralling. It may also fool Scientist with its framing, to make Scientist, a slightly weak role, an escapable counter to Siren. Take what you please.
i mean isnt this the case with asro already it ingores tp and sherrif cant find it but in return in has other weaknesses
first i dont balanced roles off TG roles only whats in the game, the only reason it has the abiltiy of making other apear like the siren is because if an enthralled attacks the siren its own ability would out it as evil, it needs the ability to heal so someone cant say the day before
"im gonna attack sam with my enthralled attack if i die it means sam had a basic defense or higher and is likey the siren! so hang sam if i die guys"
it needs the ability to give other defense so this tactic doesnt insta get it hanged, the invest result is just something that makes sense and i dont think its OP,
the ability can only be used on one person at a time
you get sirens invest results but gain and defense for the night seems like a more then fair trade to me
This role is great but it seems like a buffed sk. It kills nightly, learns the roles of it's captives and makes it so they can't preform said roles. Maybe immunity for some roles, like godfather jailor and some others? And I'd like it if you could only enslave one person at once, otherwise you could just keep releasing and it'd allow you to constantly be killing. Otherwise I want this to be in the official game, good job!
sunbird1002 wrote:Mystoc, it is the case for Arso.
Arsonist...
Counters Sheriff
Counters Spy (obviously)
Counters Lookout (Just because someone visited a doused doesn't mean they are arsonist)
Counters Tracker (Same logic as LO)
And counters invest (Douses)
Siren
Counters Sheriff
Counters Invest
Counters Spy
But doesn't counter Lookout or Tracker
The problem is that because these roles are chance, it means that the Siren would be far more powerful some games than others, not great for balance. Im talking the TI slots in a game of ranked.
I understood why you added the basic defence balance change.
Terrible role. Its killing method can literally act as a town vig or an extra mafia NK. This role is worse than SW because it has 0.5 KPN and next to no control on who it kills.
sunbird1002 wrote:SW is ShadowWalker, a role which was deemed bad because of the fact that it didn't have much control over who it killed. This has even less control, giving rise to his statement. I can see his point. This role does get its hands dirty, in enthralling, and that is still findable by Lookouts and Trackers...
shadow walker only had astral attacks as an upside thats why its weak this has much much more then just that
And what. I though this can only have 2 enthralled alive. Ok, that changes a lot.
no its you can hold two people captive at a time and at the end the night one is realeased so you can only hold one person peramtly captive, enthralled is not the same thing has been held captive
Now everyone has incentive to kill the enthralled, and dissallow the Siren getting over 1 KPN, which it is possible. By N6, if you could count, it has 1 KPN, and it spirals when more and more enthralled happen. So, people will try and disallow the Siren to get over that threshold. This means this role forces people to lynch others who they don't suspect, and can lead to more game-breaking scenarios.
if they are taking time to lynch enthralled there are not taking the time to kill/lynch you seems an even trade to me remember if you die all enthralled are freed and arent forced to kill every other night so they might try look for instead and let the enthralled stay alive
The Siren yet again has no control over who lives or dies, or at least very little. And the Siren doesnt even want to control who dies. It wants to have as many people as possible captivated under their spell for it to win early. Wait...
These people who are captivated are as good as dead to the Siren. Yes, they can lynch her, if they can find her. But only if they could. Otherwise, this role has 1 KPN, and it even goes over it.
its only 1 kpn if the person doesnt die before the game ends which is very unlikey, compare to it hexmaster and u get an idea of how it would work its "1 kpn" only happens once everyone is "hexed" unlike hexmaster though everyone know who is "hexed" so can take the time to kill them getting rid of sirens kill and part of KPN
N1- 1 enthralled alive (-1 person needed to kill)
N2- Kill (-2 people needed to kill)
N3- 2 enthralled (-3 people needed to kill)
N4- Kill kill (-5 people needed to kill)
N5- 3 enthralled (-6 people needed to kill)
N6- Kill Kill Kill (-9 people needed to kill)
again people know who the enthralled are though and will try to kill them to take way ur KPN and an action u did at the same time
the situation u describe is correct but its a perfect once in 1000 type situation
i view it has a much needed game mechnaic thats fun its let the victim be the killer and choose who dies if they refuse to kill the die instead its sorta like NK the pulls string in the background that lets others do their dirty work
Your role has so many ways of looking at it that no wonder people don't know whether its powerful or weak.
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