Juggernaut Rework

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:39 am

Inspiration comes from THIS thread. Leave your feedback down below.

Name: Juggernaut
Alignment: Neutral Killing

Abilities:
- Kill one person or do nothing to charge up each night.
- Charge between four Tiers, Tier 0 - Tier 3.
- Start the game on Tier 1.


Attributes
- You are incapable of killing while on Tier 0.
- You have a Basic Attack while on Tier 1.
- You have a Powerful Attack, immunity against all Investigative- and Disruptive roles while on Tier 2. Spoiler: Investigation Immunities:
You will appear not suspicious to the Sheriff and the Detective.
You will be unable to be detected by Lookouts, Trackers and Spy bugs.
You won't appear in Psychic's odd night visions.
(Nothing against the Investigator)

Disruption Immunities:
You will be immune to being role blocked and controlled.
Your will ignore transportations.
- You have an Unstoppable Attack; immunity against all Investigative, Disruptive and Protective roles while on Tier 3. Spoiler: Investigation Immunities:
You will appear not suspicious to the Sheriff and the Detective.
You will be unable to be detected by Lookouts, Trackers and Spy bugs.
You won't appear in Psychic's odd night visions.
(Nothing against the Investigator)

Disruption Immunities:
You will be immune to being role blocked and controlled.
Your will ignore transportations.

Protection Immunities:
Your will pierce through the Doctor's and the Botanist's heal.
You will bypass Bodyguards, Crusaders and Marshals.
You will not trigger Trapper's traps.
- After every second successful kill, your current Tier will be lowered by one.


Special Attributes
- Attack: None/Basic/Powerful/Unstoppable
- Defense: Basic
- Partial Detection Immunity.
- Partial Disruption Immunity.
- Partial Protection Immunity.


Additonal Information
- If you are role blocked while on Tier 0 or 1, you will charge up instead of your intended action.
- Juggernaut is no longer a secret role.


Goal: Kill anyone who would oppose you.

Sheriff: Your target is Suspicious/Not Suspicious.
Investigator: TBA
Consigliere/Witch/Coven Leader/Potion Master: Your target is a Juggernaut.
Last edited by BasicFourLife on Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:13 am, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby dyaomaster » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:30 am

What prevents this Jugg from just charging up nights 1 and 2?

Also, control immunity has no reason to be added.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:32 am

dyaomaster wrote:What prevents this Jugg from just charging up nights 1 and 2?

Also, control immunity has no reason to be added.

Each charge up reduces your overall KPN, i just realised this role has 0.2-0.5 KPN overall, I need to buff it

Edit: I’ll add Tier 0 and while in Tier 0 you cannot kill and remove the kill delay. This should balance it out.!
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby EvanManManMan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:39 pm

"Alternate between 4 tiers"

Has 5 tiers
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:48 pm

EvanManManMan wrote:"Alternate between 4 tiers"

Has 5 tiers

Fixed. Also lol I didn’t knew you looked at RI.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby dyaomaster » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:47 pm

Why is this rework better than the current Juggernaut?

(I don’t own Coven, so explain it as if I’m an idiot please)
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:45 pm

dyaomaster wrote:Why is this rework better than the current Juggernaut?

(I don’t own Coven, so explain it as if I’m an idiot please)

Because current Juggernaut has a mechanic called “rampage”. The same reason Werewolf needs to be replaced with Butcher. Oh yeah that’s not the only problem. If it doesn’t successfully kill n2, it doesn’t get the ability to kill every night meaning it needs to wait until N4. It only gets upgrades if it successfully kills, that’s a bad mechanic to rely around.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:58 pm

i think this different enough from current juggernaut to be its own role,

the name really doesnt fit now

juggernuat means unstoppable but this is weakened down a level each time it attacks
while current juggernaut just gets stronger

i would suggest renaming this and making it its own role

the role itself is very simalar to butcher it stores kills to get more powerful

clean kills and ramapge kills , while your role gains immunties and more attack power

i think it should only be immune to sheriff at t2, otherwise this role will just

wait till n3 kill and rest and reapeat to be immune to sherrif the whole game
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:12 pm

Mystoc wrote:i think this different enough from current juggernaut to be its own role,
Juggernaut is a broken and unbalanced role. This replaces it.
the name really doesnt fit now
This fits the Juggernaut concept quite well, 'powering' up.
juggernuat means unstoppable but this is weakened down a level each time it attacks
while current juggernaut just gets stronger
Um, it would be broken if it would not go down in tiers if it killed.
i would suggest renaming this and making it its own role

the role itself is very simalar to butcher it stores kills to get more powerful
This powers up. Butcher stores and quick/multi-kills.
clean kills and ramapge kills , while your role gains immunties and more attack power
I've removed rampage if you saw.
i think it should only be immune to sheriff at t2, otherwise this role will just
- You have a Powerful Attack, appear ‘Not Suspicious’ to the Sheriff, undetectable to the Lookout and the Tracker, role block immunity and control immunity while on Tier 2.


wait till n3 kill and rest and reapeat to be immune to sherrif the whole game
That's kind of the point of charging/powering up. If you need to get a quick kill with this, you can always attack in a weaker form.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:46 pm

remove juggernaut give this a different name, make it replace it not it be a rework there is a difference

im just saying it powering down doesn't fit what a juggernaut it its an unstoppable force that doesn't tire, this clearly gets weaker after it kills balance wise that's good

name wise that's bad the name no longer fits what the role does so rename it was what im trying to say

current juggernaut gets stronger and stronger each kill it never gets weaker it builds momentum , that name fits perfeclty

==========================================================

about the sherrrif thing it can just choose to kill do this till at least one sherrif dies once the risk of this is gone

staying at t2 t3 range is basically riskless at t3 you ingore TI and TP and t2 you ingore TI so you cant be found while you wait a night

the only risk the game lasting longer but if TI cant find you its basically just scum reading from there and if good enough at bluffing you unkillable

also im surprised you didn't change and give it proper invest results, doesn't invest currently only get juggernaut as a result when it checks it. or do you keep that balance out the power level of this role on purpose
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:18 pm

Isn't this a worse SK?
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:54 am

Mystoc wrote:remove juggernaut give this a different name, make it replace it not it be a rework there is a difference

im just saying it powering down doesn't fit what a juggernaut it its an unstoppable force that doesn't tire, this clearly gets weaker after it kills balance wise that's good

name wise that's bad the name no longer fits what the role does so rename it was what im trying to say

current juggernaut gets stronger and stronger each kill it never gets weaker it builds momentum , that name fits perfeclty

==========================================================

about the sherrrif thing it can just choose to kill do this till at least one sherrif dies once the risk of this is gone

staying at t2 t3 range is basically riskless at t3 you ingore TI and TP and t2 you ingore TI so you cant be found while you wait a night

the only risk the game lasting longer but if TI cant find you its basically just scum reading from there and if good enough at bluffing you unkillable

also im surprised you didn't change and give it proper invest results, doesn't invest currently only get juggernaut as a result when it checks it. or do you keep that balance out the power level of this role on purpose

Invest results don’t rlly matter.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby Seththeking » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:45 am

This is a simple concept of Buff and attack but if you attack it is lowered.

Though I feel like Teir 1 should be more then just Basic Attack I’m thinking also Roleblock Immunity.

Or maybe just Roleblock Immunity on Teir 0.

IDK. Cause RN the way I look at it, it’s a 0.5 - 0.4 - 0.3 KPN. It could be higher with a few changes to make it a 0.7 - 0.8 or 0.9 almost 1KPN.


You could give it a Teir where it Multi kills 2 Players.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:24 am

Yeah it looks low on KPN, I'm increasing its KPN by making that by changing this part
- After every successful second kill, your tier will be lowered by one.

This increases its KPN all the way up to 0.75
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby lemonader666 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:26 am

lemonader666 wrote:Isn't this a worse SK?
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:28 am

lemonader666 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Isn't this a worse SK?

it has up to 0.75 KPN but many immunities to compensate for that
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby lemonader666 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:16 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Isn't this a worse SK?

it has up to 0.75 KPN but many immunities to compensate for that

That's like saying arso's douses compensate for it's sk minus 1 kpn
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby lemonader666 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:29 am

thanks for ignoring my argument
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:13 am

lemonader666 wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Isn't this a worse SK?

it has up to 0.75 KPN but many immunities to compensate for that

That's like saying arso's douses compensate for it's sk minus 1 kpn

They actually do. Arso is immune against all TIs and all TPs giving it unlimited claimspace, safety and guaranteed douses. This role has its own specialities to compensate for that.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:27 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Isn't this a worse SK?

it has up to 0.75 KPN but many immunities to compensate for that

That's like saying arso's douses compensate for it's sk minus 1 kpn

They actually do. Arso is immune against all TIs and all TPs giving it unlimited claimspace, safety and guaranteed douses. This role has its own specialities to compensate for that.

1. Don't talk about the new arso to me
2. It doesn't compensate anything at all, you're trading kpn rate for stealth, and the longer you don't kill, the easier for you to get caught, so it's practically doesn't matter. It's a weaker SK.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby UzayAltay » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:06 am

How can You tier up Except RBed ?
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:34 am

UzayAltay wrote:How can You tier up Except RBed ?

Performing no action
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:17 am

Bump. I want more feedback on this possibility of a role. I won't settle with less than 2 pages or if I've decided to scrap this idea for its flawed mechanics, which for one I don't seem to be finding. Surely its upgrades need some form of improvement, tuning or changing around and that's why I want feedback.
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby fwogcarf » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:40 pm

I've actually never seen a Juggernaut in game, so I'd like to see it more.

Like all of these changes, but this can't be in ranked
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Re: Juggernaut Rework

Postby BasicFourLife » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:49 pm

fwogcarf wrote:I've actually never seen a Juggernaut in game, so I'd like to see it more.

Like all of these changes, but this can't be in ranked

Juggernaut is the worst and most broken NK which needs changes. Just read about it on Wiki if you do not know how it works. Also why couldn't this be in Ranked? As long as the NK spot exists it is a possible NK role to add along Serial Killer, Arsonist and Butcher.
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