Mystoc wrote:this is a reverse ret, instead of rezin someone and confirming them and yourself
you have to die to confirm yourself and and confirm a person that's already alive
this role is way more skilless then ret and also weaker too then ret, being weaker then ret isnt a bad thing my point though is its too similar to ret
also town scout is not an alignemnt
this is role literary click button that only does something if you die and wait to die
i'm not seeing the use of this gimme some examples please
Mystoc wrote:also town scout is not an alignemnt
Barfer789 wrote:Mystoc wrote:also town scout is not an alignemnt
The testing grounds replaced Town Support with Town Scout and Town Tactical.
This thing can find evils or confirm a townie, which is pretty good. Besides, what if you don’t die at all? What if your target dies the same night you did? This can be either very good or nearly useless.
Also, will this ability take affect if you are lynched?
Maybe it shouldn’t be able to be revived though?
Edit: dang it bs posted while I was
fwogcarf wrote:/nosupport
In my opinion this is a buffed consig for the town. Town can easily confirm one another very quickly with this role
Mystoc wrote:dying to confirm another town member is actually very good, i'm not disputing that
cause really you clear two town role slots IF you selected a town, if you didn't select a town then you get a free evil kill, it good utility and a good reason to die
i just hate how skilless the role is you just click a button each night, it really doesn't even matter which role you reveal if its town or evils its equally good and helpful, it's a skilless and braindead role to play
its funny cause if ur visit that can get you killed like from WW or medusa ect.. your very ability happens so you don't even care u just died that's how skilless the role is there is no correct time to use it confirming someone early game is just as good as confirming them late game so really u just click a button and wait to die
its only counters are consort role blocking it or witch making it select itself and reveal a useless role when it dies
evils will have no way to counter it besides consort and thats that's not in every game, a role shouldn't be so braindead and strong the evils best course of action is ingore it / kill it last, the thing is though this role will never reveal its this role cause it Wants to die so evils wont even know to be on the lookout not to kill it
2 ways to make the role less brain dead and boring
1) 3 charges for the ability going off kinda like vet ability only happen if used a charge and died
2) has one charge always and takes one night for the charge to come back
2 changes that make sense and should be in the role because it makes no sense otherwise
1) if town kills this role its ability wont go off
2) i kinda hope this already the case but hanging should not trigger the ability
- You can envision 3 times and your envision will be present until you change your target.
Mystoc wrote:- You can envision 3 times and your envision will be present until you change your target.
that makes it sound like it lasts forever not just the end of the night
-it doesn't have limited charge if when it "alerts" that alert stays on the person forever
evision on a person should only last that one night without this changed the role remainless skilless and boring even more so than ret,
at least ret has to rationalize do i wait to rez someone better and risk dying or do i just rez the meduim to be sure i get my ability off,
town shouldn't be able to proc the ability by killing it or hanging it because for town it is totally worth confirming two town slots even if one town has to die to do it
Jackparrot wrote:First of all, Invest results?
Second of all, the way i understand this role, Oracle will know the role of the player she envisioned, if this is so then /nosupport as it would mean a game like this:
John: Hey guys, 5 is GF lynch him quick!
*lynch 5*
*5 was GF*
M O O N M AN: ok John is ct now
Do we want situations like this? no! so /nosuport (unless i misunderstood the role)
Mystoc wrote:give it 4 charges that way it still needs to make a choice a game lasts 6-8 days so you have 50% uptime at the worst and about 66% at best
or give it 2 permanent charges so if the person you targeted to reveal their roles dies you get one do over, this promotes wisely picking people who you think wont die or waiting till you feel like you will die soon
3 permant charges is to lenient 2 is just the right number i think
how it is now its a brainless role that takes no skill one of those two options will work
BS4125 wrote:Mystoc wrote:give it 4 charges that way it still needs to make a choice a game lasts 6-8 days so you have 50% uptime at the worst and about 66% at best
or give it 2 permanent charges so if the person you targeted to reveal their roles dies you get one do over, this promotes wisely picking people who you think wont die or waiting till you feel like you will die soon
3 permant charges is to lenient 2 is just the right number i think
how it is now its a brainless role that takes no skill one of those two options will work
I think I’ll go with 4 charges
Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?
Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?
- You can envision 4 times.
HereThereEverywhere wrote:Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.
Mystoc wrote:Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?
ehhh maybe a little to forgiving cause the idea is you need to predict the person is gonna live so the info you share will be useful when u die
really your predicting you will die that night when you envision right so the fact someone else died means you were wrong
since your using a crystal ball maybe change wording the key word envision to scry or divine
it would be like saying if vigilante shoots someone who gets killed by someone else he shouldn't lose a charge cause they would've died if he didn't shoot them try see if you think that is fair
i would say yes you should keep the charge with the permanent option with 2 charges
and no you should lose the charge 4 charge option
4 alerts is a lot to have, if it didn't count just cause they died is like giving you 5 alerts in a 6 day game that would be alot of uptime and this could end up happening multiple times
==============================================================- You can envision 4 times.
also you should just clarify its attempts to evinsion a targets role that will only be announced if you die when attempted envision is being used
this line kinda makes it seem like you can reveal people's rolse 4 times which ofc would be OP
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can this role do its ability again if ret rezes them kinda OP interaction but does make sense game mechanics wise
-ofc evils wouldn't be dumb enough to attack a rezed oracle but eh it would be good if clarify this either way
HereThereEverywhere wrote:Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.
Mystoc wrote:HereThereEverywhere wrote:Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.
super strong you confirm the two people with one ability (cough cough ret)
you confirm your town when you die and confirm someone's exact role, unlike ret the person if town they didn't need to die and then be rezed to confirm their town status
you can also confirm someone is evil which is something np other role can in the game do, with sheriff you have to take their word they aren't lying a system wide game message cant lie
this would be the first town role that can confirm unconfirmable town roles who before couldnt ever 100% confirm themselves (like sheriff LO ect..)
EDIT
this ability is very strong, it also acts as holy shit we cant kill this person to evils or they give town a lot of info if evils know you are oracle, you can play it two ways be leader for town and dare evils to attack you you can even say im oracle and evils have to decide if they want you to a mini mayor who isnt scared to die or if they should risk giving town info and just kill you, it's funny because saying im oracle is like saying "TP STAY AWAY FROM ME LET ME DIE" which i find very funny
its comparable to vet but info vrs the threat of death but unlike vet the oracle can never accidently kill town who visit them
towns main and only way to win is getting info though so they know to hang its why town has 2 guaranteed TI in the rolelist
this role is a lot stronger than you think everywhere it was OP and the ability was passive before you saw it lol, still very strong though, i think its strong but balanced in its current state
EDIT EDIT:
now that i think about this a good role for evils to fake claim cause since town cant trigger the ability and hanging cant either (which is how it should be or it would be OP) evils can claim it since town cant say okay well kill you then to get our confirmed role, and evils who aren't part of the evils roles faction won't want to kill it or they reveal info, it perfect claim and you need no will
i would put its invest results in the jester vamps hex one that way jester and hex have a good role to claim
"You have decided to envision ____ tonight"
- When you die, your last target's role will be announced to the town.
-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target.
Mystoc wrote:"You have decided to envision ____ tonight"
still says envision
edit
yea with it being permanent a player has to play alot smarter too cause picking a person's role to reveal is a lot more impactful of a choice since you only get one backup choice if they die or end up being mayor/jailor making your ability useless so sometimes waiting to get info and not doing it n1 will be much smarter
you also didn't mention anywhere that if they die the night you pick them you don't lose a scry charge, i think its fair since its permanent and you only have two charges
edit edit- When you die, your last target's role will be announced to the town.
say dis instead
-If you die, the role of the person who was scryed most recently will be announced to everyone else
and dis-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target.
-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target or your current target dies
if it becomes a really popular scumclaim, it'll just get lynched. Sure, you wont get any info from it. Except you will. They get lynched, they're confirmed as the role they die as. If you keep them alive, maybe scum will kill them, but since it's such a popular claim according to you and acts as nothing more than a citizen when alive it's definitely not the worst Townie to lynch.
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