Oracle (Town Support)(nod approved)

[BS4125]

Oracle

Alignment: Town Scout
Abilities:
- Scry about a player at night.
- When you’re dead, protect your scried target at night.

Attributes:
- If you die, the role of the last target you scried will be announced to everyone.
- If you are killed by a Town member or lynched, your target’s role will not be announced.
- If the target you scry about dies the same night, you will not lose your charge.
- You may scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target.
- Your protection will delay the death of your scried target by one night.
- You may protect your target once.

Stats:
Attack: None
Defense: None
Priority: 1st

Messages:
"You have decided to scry about ____ tonight"

When the Oracle dies:
"The crystal ball reveals that ____'s role is ____"

Goal:
Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Win Condition
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill Serial Killers
You must kill Arsonists
You must kill Butchers
You must kill Shadowalkers
You must kill Electricians
You must kill Slaughterers
You must kill Werewolves
You must kill Witches
You must kill Warlocks
You must kill Stalkers
You must kill Necromorphs
You win with the Town
You win with Survivors
You may spare anyone else.

Credit to roz1roz for helping me with this role.

[Mystoc]

this is a reverse ret, instead of rezin someone and confirming them and yourself

you have to die to confirm yourself and and confirm a person that's already alive
this role is way more skilless then ret and also weaker too then ret, being weaker then ret isnt a bad thing my point though is its too similar to ret

also town scout is not an alignemnt

this is role literary click button that only does something if you die and wait to die
i'm not seeing the use of this gimme some examples please

[BS4125]

this is a reverse ret, instead of rezin someone and confirming them and yourself

you have to die to confirm yourself and and confirm a person that's already alive
this role is way more skilless then ret and also weaker too then ret, being weaker then ret isnt a bad thing my point though is its too similar to ret

also town scout is not an alignemnt

this is role literary click button that only does something if you die and wait to die
i'm not seeing the use of this gimme some examples please

This is a popular role used in many other Mafia games and has proved to work effectively. Sure it doesn’t offer much with ability wise however it is more skilful than Ret is as it has to either choose someone who could flip Town and lead as confirmed or trade that for choosing someone who could flip scum to kill them off quick and easily.
Plus, you have to die to give information so there is strategy with it having to Vet bait for killers to target it, however from the scum killing the Oracle, it leads to their demise of the Oracle exposing one of them as scum or confirming a Town role

Town Scout is an alignment in TG, basically a pseudo investigative Town Support

I believe it has tons of use with confirming a Town or a scum role, plus because it is a little weak, an additional ability could be added to it to make it more exciting, maybe it knows how many players visited the target they chose that night just to give it something additional to give whilst alive, but it shouldn’t have a massive investigative ability since I think this role should be easy to claim and not easy to confirm itself when alive

If you don’t think it should be a new role, it can just be a more healthy Retributionist, sure if doesn’t bring back a player or a role, but it’s a healthier premise

[Barfer789]

also town scout is not an alignemnt

The testing grounds replaced Town Support with Town Scout and Town Tactical.

This thing can find evils or confirm a townie, which is pretty good. Besides, what if you don’t die at all? What if your target dies the same night you did? This can be either very good or nearly useless.

Also, will this ability take affect if you are lynched?

Maybe it shouldn’t be able to be revived though?

Edit: dang it bs posted while I was

[fwogcarf]

/nosupport

In my opinion this is a buffed consig for the town. Town can easily confirm one another very quickly with this role

[BS4125]

also town scout is not an alignemnt

The testing grounds replaced Town Support with Town Scout and Town Tactical.

This thing can find evils or confirm a townie, which is pretty good. Besides, what if you don’t die at all? What if your target dies the same night you did? This can be either very good or nearly useless.

Also, will this ability take affect if you are lynched?

Maybe it shouldn’t be able to be revived though?

Edit: dang it bs posted while I was

Yes you need die to give information, however if you cannot get yourself killed then that’s your own fault for bad play. With giving it a weak investigative ability whilst alive though, it can be a little useful and provide help to Town if it doesn’t die.

If your target dies when you die, nothing different happens, the message is still sent of what the Oracle found and the Oracle’s target flips their role as normal

Yes the ability will take effect when lynched, it’s any way you die at all, except leaving the game as suicide

Unsure, maybe, maybe not

/nosupport

In my opinion this is a buffed consig for the town. Town can easily confirm one another very quickly with this role

It trades a dead Townie for a confirmed Town or confirmed scum once, it’s not a buffed Consig, rather quite weak tbf

[Mystoc]

dying to confirm another town member is actually very good, i'm not disputing that

cause really you clear two town role slots IF you selected a town, if you didn't select a town then you get a free evil kill, it good utility and a good reason to die


i just hate how skilless the role is you just click a button each night, it really doesn't even matter which role you reveal if its town or evils its equally good and helpful, it's a skilless and braindead role to play

its funny cause if ur visit that can get you killed like from WW or medusa ect.. your very ability happens so you don't even care u just died that's how skilless the role is there is no correct time to use it confirming someone early game is just as good as confirming them late game so really u just click a button and wait to die

its only counters are consort role blocking it or witch making it select itself and reveal a useless role when it dies

evils will have no way to counter it besides consort and thats that's not in every game, a role shouldn't be so braindead and strong the evils best course of action is ingore it / kill it last, the thing is though this role will never reveal its this role cause it Wants to die so evils wont even know to be on the lookout not to kill it


2 ways to make the role less brain dead and boring

1) 3 charges for the ability going off kinda like vet ability only happen if used a charge and died
2) has one charge always and takes one night for the charge to come back

2 changes that make sense and should be in the role because it makes no sense otherwise

1) if town kills this role its ability wont go off
2) i kinda hope this already the case but hanging should not trigger the ability

[BS4125]

dying to confirm another town member is actually very good, i'm not disputing that

cause really you clear two town role slots IF you selected a town, if you didn't select a town then you get a free evil kill, it good utility and a good reason to die


i just hate how skilless the role is you just click a button each night, it really doesn't even matter which role you reveal if its town or evils its equally good and helpful, it's a skilless and braindead role to play

its funny cause if ur visit that can get you killed like from WW or medusa ect.. your very ability happens so you don't even care u just died that's how skilless the role is there is no correct time to use it confirming someone early game is just as good as confirming them late game so really u just click a button and wait to die

its only counters are consort role blocking it or witch making it select itself and reveal a useless role when it dies

evils will have no way to counter it besides consort and thats that's not in every game, a role shouldn't be so braindead and strong the evils best course of action is ingore it / kill it last, the thing is though this role will never reveal its this role cause it Wants to die so evils wont even know to be on the lookout not to kill it


2 ways to make the role less brain dead and boring

1) 3 charges for the ability going off kinda like vet ability only happen if used a charge and died
2) has one charge always and takes one night for the charge to come back

2 changes that make sense and should be in the role because it makes no sense otherwise

1) if town kills this role its ability wont go off
2) i kinda hope this already the case but hanging should not trigger the ability

It’s a good utility yes, and good trade. Plus I get that it isnt so skilful right now, limiting how many times it can use its ability is much better than having it being a full time ability.
The second idea I disagree on, it shouldn’t be every second night and should rather have the ability to choose with it being more skilful that way than rather the night number limiting it to when it can use its ability

The other two I agree on, there tbh should be ways for scum to safely dispose of the Oracle

[Mystoc]

- You can envision 3 times and your envision will be present until you change your target.

that makes it sound like it lasts forever not just the end of the night
-it doesn't have limited charge if when it "alerts" that alert stays on the person forever

if feel like 3 real alerts that only last one night are to little give it 4 alerts/envisions

evision on a person should only last that one night without this changed the role remainless skilless and boring even more so than ret,

at least ret has to rationalize do i wait to rez someone better and risk dying or do i just rez the meduim to be sure i get my ability off,

town shouldn't be able to proc the ability by killing it or hanging it because for town it is totally worth confirming two town slots even if one town has to die to do it edit - nvm u added that

[BS4125]

- You can envision 3 times and your envision will be present until you change your target.

that makes it sound like it lasts forever not just the end of the night
-it doesn't have limited charge if when it "alerts" that alert stays on the person forever

evision on a person should only last that one night without this changed the role remainless skilless and boring even more so than ret,

at least ret has to rationalize do i wait to rez someone better and risk dying or do i just rez the meduim to be sure i get my ability off,

town shouldn't be able to proc the ability by killing it or hanging it because for town it is totally worth confirming two town slots even if one town has to die to do it

But wouldn’t the role be super weak? If it uses all its charges or predicts wrongly, it wouldn’t have any effect on the game. It should have a high chance of exposing information with ways for Mafia to still dispose of them easily, otherwise it’s super weak.

[Mystoc]

give it 4 charges that way it still needs to make a choice a game lasts 6-8 days so you have 50% uptime at the worst and about 66% at best

or give it 2 permanent charges so if the person you targeted to reveal their roles dies you get one do over, this promotes wisely picking people who you think wont die or waiting till you feel like you will die soon

3 permant charges is to lenient 2 is just the right number i think

how it is now its a brainless role that takes no skill one of those two options will work

[Jackparrot]

First of all, Invest results?

Second of all, the way i understand this role, Oracle will know the role of the player she envisioned, if this is so then /nosupport as it would mean a game like this:

John: Hey guys, 5 is GF lynch him quick!
*lynch 5*
*5 was GF*

M O O N M AN: ok John is ct now

Do we want situations like this? no! so /nosuport (unless i misunderstood the role)

[Mystoc]

First of all, Invest results?

Second of all, the way i understand this role, Oracle will know the role of the player she envisioned, if this is so then /nosupport as it would mean a game like this:

John: Hey guys, 5 is GF lynch him quick!
*lynch 5*
*5 was GF*

M O O N M AN: ok John is ct now

Do we want situations like this? no! so /nosuport (unless i misunderstood the role)

invest results don't matter if its added into the game it would be with lots of other roles so all inves results would be changed so it's kinda pointless to make up fake ones

nah when oracles dies it reveals the role of the person they targeted that night to everyone else

the only thing bad about the role is how skilless it is and very hard to counter cause its ability is dying and evils need to kill town

[TheGator]

So this is a mix of Jester and Consigliere all plotted together into one entire role?

what's the point to confirm a town or an evil at death? it seems useless because your doing nothing till you die and it just makes no sense in the way i'm looking at it.

and what if your target dies the same night you do? it would mean this role would be utterly useless

[BS4125]

give it 4 charges that way it still needs to make a choice a game lasts 6-8 days so you have 50% uptime at the worst and about 66% at best

or give it 2 permanent charges so if the person you targeted to reveal their roles dies you get one do over, this promotes wisely picking people who you think wont die or waiting till you feel like you will die soon

3 permant charges is to lenient 2 is just the right number i think

how it is now its a brainless role that takes no skill one of those two options will work

I think I’ll go with 4 charges
Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?

[TheGator]

give it 4 charges that way it still needs to make a choice a game lasts 6-8 days so you have 50% uptime at the worst and about 66% at best

or give it 2 permanent charges so if the person you targeted to reveal their roles dies you get one do over, this promotes wisely picking people who you think wont die or waiting till you feel like you will die soon

3 permant charges is to lenient 2 is just the right number i think

how it is now its a brainless role that takes no skill one of those two options will work

I think I’ll go with 4 charges
Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?

Despite this role being very sketchy... a way to improve this role might be these 2 buffs,

When a player envisioned dies the night you envisioned them your envision will fail.
If you die on the same night your envisioned target dies the town will instead know the role of the player who killed the envisioned target

[Mystoc]

Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?

ehhh maybe a little to forgiving cause the idea is you need to predict the person is gonna live so the info you share will be useful when u die

really your predicting you will die that night when you envision right so the fact someone else died means you were wrong

since your using a crystal ball maybe change wording the key word envision to scry or divine

it would be like saying if vigilante shoots someone who gets killed by someone else he shouldn't lose a charge cause they would've died if he didn't shoot them try see if you think that is fair

i would say yes you should keep the charge with the permanent option with 2 charges
and no you should lose the charge 4 charge option

4 alerts is a lot to have, if it didn't count just cause they died is like giving you 5 alerts in a 6 day game that would be alot of uptime and this could end up happening multiple times

==============================================================

- You can envision 4 times.

also you should just clarify its attempts to evinsion a targets role that will only be announced if you die when attempted envision is being used

this line kinda makes it seem like you can reveal people's rolse 4 times which ofc would be OP

====================================================================================


can this role do its ability again if ret rezes them kinda OP interaction but does make sense game mechanics wise
-ofc evils wouldn't be dumb enough to attack a rezed oracle but eh it would be good if clarify this either way

[HereThereEverywhere]

Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.

[Mystoc]

Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.

super strong you confirm the two people with one ability (cough cough ret)

you confirm your town when you die and confirm someone's exact role, unlike ret the person if town they didn't need to die and then be rezed to confirm their town status

you can also confirm someone is evil which is something np other role can in the game do, with sheriff you have to take their word they aren't lying a system wide game message cant lie

this would be the first town role that can confirm unconfirmable town roles who before couldnt ever 100% confirm themselves (like sheriff LO ect..)

EDIT

this ability is very strong, it also acts as holy shit we cant kill this person to evils or they give town a lot of info if evils know you are oracle, you can play it two ways be leader for town and dare evils to attack you you can even say im oracle and evils have to decide if they want you to a mini mayor who isnt scared to die or if they should risk giving town info and just kill you, it's funny because saying im oracle is like saying "TP STAY AWAY FROM ME LET ME DIE" which i find very funny

its comparable to vet but info vrs the threat of death but unlike vet the oracle can never accidently kill town who visit them

towns main and only way to win is getting info though so they know to hang its why town has 2 guaranteed TI in the rolelist

this role is a lot stronger than you think everywhere it was OP and the ability was passive before you saw it lol, still very strong though, i think its strong but balanced in its current state

EDIT EDIT:
now that i think about this a good role for evils to fake claim cause since town cant trigger the ability and hanging cant either (which is how it should be or it would be OP) evils can claim it since town cant say okay well kill you then to get our confirmed role, and evils who aren't part of the evils roles faction won't want to kill it or they reveal info, it perfect claim and you need no will

i would put its invest results in the jester vamps hex one that way jester and hex have a good role to claim

[BS4125]

Also, what about if the envisioned player dies the night the Oracle envisions them, the Oracle doesn’t lose a charge?

ehhh maybe a little to forgiving cause the idea is you need to predict the person is gonna live so the info you share will be useful when u die

really your predicting you will die that night when you envision right so the fact someone else died means you were wrong

since your using a crystal ball maybe change wording the key word envision to scry or divine

it would be like saying if vigilante shoots someone who gets killed by someone else he shouldn't lose a charge cause they would've died if he didn't shoot them try see if you think that is fair

i would say yes you should keep the charge with the permanent option with 2 charges
and no you should lose the charge 4 charge option

4 alerts is a lot to have, if it didn't count just cause they died is like giving you 5 alerts in a 6 day game that would be alot of uptime and this could end up happening multiple times

==============================================================

- You can envision 4 times.

also you should just clarify its attempts to evinsion a targets role that will only be announced if you die when attempted envision is being used

this line kinda makes it seem like you can reveal people's rolse 4 times which ofc would be OP

====================================================================================


can this role do its ability again if ret rezes them kinda OP interaction but does make sense game mechanics wise
-ofc evils wouldn't be dumb enough to attack a rezed oracle but eh it would be good if clarify this either way

Ok sure, I’m just conscious of this role being too weak if it isn’t able to use its ability. It could have a really weak ability to balance that out, I think though that it’s moved in a different direction to that

Sure I’ll change it to “scry”, I actually didn’t know that was a word

Tbf, having 2 permenant charges would be better since there’s less risk in it being inconsistent

If it’s not clear enough, I can change it sure

I don’t know if a resurrected Oracle should use its ability again, I’m inching in the “yes” direction as it wouldn’t be killed really if scum know they are an Oracle

Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.

Citizens are a whole different ball game, they introduce vanilla Town however this is strictly PR. Plus this wouldn’t perform any differently to how it does in other games compared to ToS

Confirmed Town or scum in the game is very strong, Retributionist is categorised or wanted to be categorised as Town Powet for that soul reason

[BS4125]

Just because it works in other games, that doesn't mean it works here. Citizen works in other games, because those games are focused on the player interactions more than the actions they can take, or at the very least the player interactions are more important than in ToS. You get confirmed information, but only once, and it's not even all that much. I don't see that being strong enough to warrant being in the game.

super strong you confirm the two people with one ability (cough cough ret)

you confirm your town when you die and confirm someone's exact role, unlike ret the person if town they didn't need to die and then be rezed to confirm their town status

you can also confirm someone is evil which is something np other role can in the game do, with sheriff you have to take their word they aren't lying a system wide game message cant lie

this would be the first town role that can confirm unconfirmable town roles who before couldnt ever 100% confirm themselves (like sheriff LO ect..)

EDIT

this ability is very strong, it also acts as holy shit we cant kill this person to evils or they give town a lot of info if evils know you are oracle, you can play it two ways be leader for town and dare evils to attack you you can even say im oracle and evils have to decide if they want you to a mini mayor who isnt scared to die or if they should risk giving town info and just kill you, it's funny because saying im oracle is like saying "TP STAY AWAY FROM ME LET ME DIE" which i find very funny

its comparable to vet but info vrs the threat of death but unlike vet the oracle can never accidently kill town who visit them

towns main and only way to win is getting info though so they know to hang its why town has 2 guaranteed TI in the rolelist

this role is a lot stronger than you think everywhere it was OP and the ability was passive before you saw it lol, still very strong though, i think its strong but balanced in its current state

EDIT EDIT:
now that i think about this a good role for evils to fake claim cause since town cant trigger the ability and hanging cant either (which is how it should be or it would be OP) evils can claim it since town cant say okay well kill you then to get our confirmed role, and evils who aren't part of the evils roles faction won't want to kill it or they reveal info, it perfect claim and you need no will

i would put its invest results in the jester vamps hex one that way jester and hex have a good role to claim

brain explodes multiple times

This has just made me like it even more, it’s pretty much the ultimate fakeclaim and can even lead the Town. This can make the role super weary to Town and to scum refusing to kill them, to the point where you can either never claim your role or claim your role and lead the Town

Scum can still dispose of the Oracle safely if it kills the two targets the Oracle has scried (that might even mean sacrificing a Mafia member if scried which is really interesting). Because if this the Oracle can last a long time without dying or needing any protection

[Mystoc]

"You have decided to envision ____ tonight"

still says envision

edit
yea with it being permanent a player has to play alot smarter too cause picking a person's role to reveal is a lot more impactful of a choice since you only get one backup choice if they die or end up being mayor/jailor making your ability useless so sometimes waiting to get info and not doing it n1 will be much smarter

you also didn't mention anywhere that if they die the night you pick them you don't lose a scry charge, i think its fair since its permanent and you only have two charges

edit edit

- When you die, your last target's role will be announced to the town.

say dis instead

-If you die, the role of the person who was scryed most recently will be announced to everyone else

and dis

-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target.

-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target or your current target dies

[BS4125]

"You have decided to envision ____ tonight"

still says envision

edit
yea with it being permanent a player has to play alot smarter too cause picking a person's role to reveal is a lot more impactful of a choice since you only get one backup choice if they die or end up being mayor/jailor making your ability useless so sometimes waiting to get info and not doing it n1 will be much smarter

you also didn't mention anywhere that if they die the night you pick them you don't lose a scry charge, i think its fair since its permanent and you only have two charges

edit edit

- When you die, your last target's role will be announced to the town.

say dis instead

-If you die, the role of the person who was scryed most recently will be announced to everyone else

and dis

-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target.

-You can scry about a player 2 times and your scry will still be present until you change your target or your current target dies

Oh I missed that it said it in messages, I’ll edit it to “scry”

I’ll add in the fact that it doesn’t lose a charge when then person dies the same night now, also those other messages convey it clearer

[HereThereEverywhere]

If it becomes a really popular scumclaim, it'll just get lynched. Sure, you wont get any info from it. Except you will. They get lynched, they're confirmed as the role they die as. If you keep them alive, maybe scum will kill them, but since it's such a popular claim according to you and acts as nothing more than a citizen when alive it's definitely not the worst Townie to lynch.

[Mystoc]

if it becomes a really popular scumclaim, it'll just get lynched. Sure, you wont get any info from it. Except you will. They get lynched, they're confirmed as the role they die as. If you keep them alive, maybe scum will kill them, but since it's such a popular claim according to you and acts as nothing more than a citizen when alive it's definitely not the worst Townie to lynch.

not true that's like saying all sheriffs and LO's get lynched, if it fits the role list or is likely to fit the role list it won't get lynched because killing it that way makes it so its ability never happens does town really want to risk it? confirming someone's role is very powerful,

thing usually claiming this role is a bad play has oracle because then evils wont kill you, so a real oracle wouldn't admit to being this role maybe only when on the voted to that stand, that's a good way to spot a fake claim if they admit to being oracle to easily, kinda like has vet you want avoid claiming vet at all costs and sometimes lie and say your vig so evils visit you

this is also why it needs an uncommon inves result like
(OP hasn't given it one yet but i think that's the best fit)

Framer, Vampire, Jester, or Hex Master, Oracle

so most evils can claim it it but risk invest finding out they lied, and jester being in the result makes people even more unwilling to hang it,

not all evils will claim it since multiple people claiming it will look susp, you will prolly have one evil fake claiming it each game and not anymore then that, like what happens with sheriff and LO and you don't see them getting auto hanged

its sorta a role you have to give benefit of the doubt until you have more info, ofc if the role list says the role is very unlikely then u might take the chance and hang the role its sorta like no one believes you but cant really afford to call you bluff till they get more info or its later on into the game