ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
It's a post-mortem Lookout. The question is: "Does a post-mortem Lookout work?" and "Is this version balanced?" And that's why we have a comment section, please entertain the discussion!
A coroner is a person whose standard role is to confirm and certify the death of an individual within a jurisdiction. A coroner may also conduct or order an inquest into the manner or cause of death, and investigate or confirm the identity of an unknown person who has been found dead within the coroner's jurisdiction.
It's a post-mortem Lookout. The question is: "Does a post-mortem Lookout work?" and "Is this version balanced?" And that's why we have a comment section, please entertain the discussion!
A coroner is a person whose standard role is to confirm and certify the death of an individual within a jurisdiction. A coroner may also conduct or order an inquest into the manner or cause of death, and investigate or confirm the identity of an unknown person who has been found dead within the coroner's jurisdiction.
a scientist who studies the causes and effects of diseases, especially one who examines laboratory samples of body tissue for diagnostic or forensic purposes.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Mystoc wrote:you use as Lookout and tracker as being able to do this, the problem is they need to pick the person the exact night it happens
this role doesn't need to pick any night it can do it whenever it wants with no limit on time between the death and when you check the body
this role will excel at finding fake wills get an evil on stand ask for will lets say they claim to be sheriff check who they claimed to have visited on a night someone died if they didnt = dead
if in their fake will they don't have any nights they visited someone the night they died that in itself is susp
usually throughout a game you end visiting at least one person the night they die very easily
evils will almost always lie who they visited while towns won't in their wills so if you see a difference they visited who they didn't it's game over
basicly you don't wanna waste bodies early on just on hunches you wait till people have to show wills then check the bodies
this role is basically a super sheriff who can check people twice a night with mafia killing / nk cause even it doesn't find a person that visited it eliminates that they cant be a killer
late game when theres 5-7 people alive this role will be OP since theres much less people to guess on and by that time you have eliminated some people already that they cant be a killer
this role is somewhat balanced early game because theres so many people to check but it will wait till mid game when people reveal wills on stand then use its ability this the type of role who doesn't want blindly waste a body so its better to nothing and get info first
the checking two people a night part makes this role to strong and sheriff like i would change it to one person and maybe you can use a body twice
BigDaddyBigMac1 wrote:I think this works! Because let's say you investigate the dead medium, and check the living Godfather. He will show up as not visiting (if mafioso killed)but that doesn't mean he is confirmed town. Also you could investigate the dead medium, but have the sheriff be the visiting role so you ask him for his role and if it is inconsistent with your findings he's evil! This isn't op. It's not a guarantee to confirm town. 10/10 role. Click a dead member then a living member is a great investigative role.
If you're alive by the end of the game then that's not OP. It's similar to an investigator at the end of the game, it can easily find an evil role simply because you were able to survive, that's the evils fault. It can be powerful if played correctly just like any other role. It can't easily fine evils, it can find if the person visited, can be a sheriff that investigated the same night he died so it's limited alot.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Shilster wrote:Isn't this just a better Janitor? It can totally disable people, and yeah, it nerfs lynching. People who can't vote (especially Town members) are useless to their team.
YuuArtSui explained it pretty well.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:You can check a body every day, but it can only happen once for each body, meaning that its a 1-use ability for each body, you cant do anything day 1 cuz no dead, then the rest of the game you should have plenty of bodies.
It's like a Lookout but it works every day, not just the day the player visits. Like if you check the mafioso on a mafia-killed player 2 days ago, you will be told that he visited your target.
Trace means to track. Track means to follow. Its just syntax that means you will choose 2 people and be told whether they visited the body on the day of its death or not.
I am sure my specifications are fine, I think that's on your reading, not my writing.
Shilster wrote:Isn't this just a better Janitor? It can totally disable people, and yeah, it nerfs lynching. People who can't vote (especially Town members) are useless to their team.
YuuArtSui explained it pretty well.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
MaskedPokerFace wrote:does not look like a nerfed sheriff and spy?
i mean it is too hard to detect a mafia member
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:MaskedPokerFace wrote:does not look like a nerfed sheriff and spy?
i mean it is too hard to detect a mafia member
So you think that is underpowered? What would you suggest as a buff? And do you think that there are any mechanical errors?
I do think that this is a bit more underpowered than perfect, but I think its a very small amount compared to Sheriff and Tracker.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:This is clearly not a support role, I will say that. All it does is find incriminating information, which is the pinnacle of Town (Investigative), but for your other claims...
That is true, you cannot do anything night 1, but that is it and it isn't that bad. There's not much you can do when you die early, Sheriff has basically no information unless he gets lucky, usually your targets will die off naturally, any information you find and leave in your will helps the evils make fakeclaims better. This role exceeds in the middle game, or the area right before losing majority but not before you are faced with losing it, as the targets left can be narrowed down by scumreading and you can find an evil per night at that time.
Preparing to die before day 2 or day 3 is not a good strategy, that means you are just a martyr that took the hit so the rest of your townies can play to the middle/late game. Don't think that you have to do amazing, somebody has to take the hit and that somebody won't be very useful with really any town role outside of the whole Jailor/Escort on Serial Killer deal. You do not need to plan to be that guy.
And I do want to make sure you understand, this role does not work every full moon, it works every night, technically it could visit night 1 but its just that there are no targets, like how Medium still has the ability to speak night 1 to the dead, there are just no dead. I wanted to make sure that was clear as it didn't seem clear in your argument.
MaskedPokerFace wrote:no i clearly see what you meant
day 1 hello day
night 1 you have to wait for someone's body non moon
day 2 you selected a body
night 2 "moon" you have got a vision which includes 2 names: at least 1 must be evil because they were killed by evil or evils but sametime mafioso will kill next target
day 3 you selected next body but what if none died?? and how will you win a town proof as an TI? isnt a bit late to claim your role and to give a trust?
night 3 you have got 2 name vision or you needed to wait next day that costs you extra nights, what if there is an arsonist??
day 4 ?? i think its process works slow if i dont misunderstood about tracing
and btw NK roles are hard to win..
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:MaskedPokerFace wrote:no i clearly see what you meant
day 1 hello day
night 1 you have to wait for someone's body non moon
day 2 you selected a body
night 2 "moon" you have got a vision which includes 2 names: at least 1 must be evil because they were killed by evil or evils but sametime mafioso will kill next target
day 3 you selected next body but what if none died?? and how will you win a town proof as an TI? isnt a bit late to claim your role and to give a trust?
night 3 you have got 2 name vision or you needed to wait next day that costs you extra nights, what if there is an arsonist??
day 4 ?? i think its process works slow if i dont misunderstood about tracing
and btw NK roles are hard to win..
If no one died, that is a win for the town. It's basically, what if the game is just stalled for a day so the town can get informed?
The idea of a balanced game means that there is no confirmability, no matter what you do there should always be a second guess or a reason not to be trusted. When claiming Pathologist, the doubt is how easy your will is to create as Pathologist likely has no information until later in the game. This is a positive factor to the role, something that all town roles should be like. You don't just get names, by the way, you pick who you think it is and you are told if either of the 2 people that you picked visited, that's it.
You do have a point about arsonist, but you could preoccupy yourself with mafia who kills every night anyway, then worry about the Arso when the mafia is gone
Gooose26 wrote:Lookout does not have the ability to automatically guess who will be attacked every time they perform an action, this role can. That's the balancing factor. Tracker only gets 1 person to track. That's the balancing factor.
Shilster wrote:Isn't this just a better Janitor? It can totally disable people, and yeah, it nerfs lynching. People who can't vote (especially Town members) are useless to their team.
YuuArtSui explained it pretty well.
oOYuuArtSuiOo wrote:Gooose26 wrote:Lookout does not have the ability to automatically guess who will be attacked every time they perform an action, this role can. That's the balancing factor. Tracker only gets 1 person to track. That's the balancing factor.
Lokoout does NOT guess who will be attack but ASSUME. They watch over those players with attractive names, talking players, accusing players, complaining ones and even the quiet ones. If there was a Lookout player who GUESSES their next target is a noob. NO one GUESSES but ASSUMES.
That is NOT a balancing factor.
Also, tracking your target to see if they visited your dead target is just useless. That's the reason WHY Medium is in the game. To know who they last visited and their info.
My case still stands.
MaskedPokerFace wrote:bte i didnt tell role is bad, i like idea but problem is latency,ti alignment and current tis dont like prepear a will even they were sheriif or speciall spies. they are a bit lazy.. and you have forget about forgers,medusas,janitors, this roles will made your long investigative days wasted
oOYuuArtSuiOo wrote:Lokoout does NOT guess who will be attack but ASSUME. They watch over those players with attractive names, talking players, accusing players, complaining ones and even the quiet ones. If there was a Lookout player who GUESSES their next target is a noob. NO one GUESSES but ASSUMES.
That is NOT a balancing factor.
Also, tracking your target to see if they visited your dead target is just useless. That's the reason WHY Medium is in the game. To know who they last visited and their info.
My case still stands.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
The idea here, which I believe to be balanced, is that this role only finds really killers + killer supports(this will find janitor/forger)
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Gooose26 wrote:Just a simple phrase: "Balance > Lore" I don't think that it should be changed because it just makes sense lore-wise, I don't see what's wrong with finding the Janitor balance-wise. Also, when I say it finds the Forger, I mean that you will see that the Forger visited the body, not that they are Forger. Don't forget that this role can find random players who just visit but are Town, it's not saying "Your target is a killer!", it is just that your target visited. That's why, to me, it is more like Lookout. You don't get a blank, black-white answer of evil or not evil, you are given some side information where you have to imply the meaning, like Lookout
yes but if they didn't visit the night the person died they are cleared 100% of being the killer thats how its like sheriff but can also find GF/ coven with necro if they kill sheriff cant do this,
that is a good point with forger though it can get a false positive they are the killer but still get hanged and found out since they did visit the night the person died
I am glad you think it is pretty much balanced, vote in my poll! xD
What if, when your target is framed the night of tracing, then it will come up as if they visited your target. It would have the same sort of effect that Investigator/Sheriff have when framed, you are incriminated af but there's always that doubt.
yes that what i was thinking of how it would work
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