Mathematician (Town Invest)

Old Role Ideas

Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:36 pm

Mathmatician
Alignment: Town Invest

Ability's:
Select 2 targets and see one message the first target would get if he visited the 2nd

Attributes:
Even if there is something that would prevent your 1st target from visiting your second (witch, rbed, ect...) You still get the same results.
It only gives information that was caused by the visit (if your target is a spy you don't see who the mafia visits and if your target was attacked and not a tp/surv that you had target themselves you are not told.)
It does not check for if they actually can to the ability if it has limited uses(you get the vets results ("you shot someone who visited you") even if they are out of alerts)
You will get no results from a witch, Coven Leader, Necromancer, Potion Master or a trans (they are not able to target only one person)
If your second target cannot select self then you get no results for targeting the same target twice.
Being controlled changes your first target.
You only visit your first target.

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evil doer.

Investigation results:
Sheriff - ns
Investigator - Consig, Invest, Mayor, Mathematician

Notes:
Possible Results are:
Spoiler: You target is (insert role here) - Consig, Sheriff, Invet (definitely the most useful result)
Your target visited (insert name here) - Traker if your second target visited (Also a very reliable result)
(insert name here) was infected with the plauge - PlagueBarrer (Only way to relyably find the PB)
You stoned someone - Meduca if your second target is self or the meduca has the necromicon (the only coven that gives results and they will probably just stone you anyway)
You were transported/killed/roleblocked/controlled/blackmailed/protected - Spy if one of these happened to the second target
You were stabbed by the serial killer you visited - escort/consort visiting an SK
You mauled someone - The ww on full moons
You shot someone - The vet if your target was himself
Your target was attacked - Doc or Crusader if your target was attacked
You protected your target - BG if your target was attacked
You have died - If your second target is a vet on alert or the WW's, Medusa's or ambusher's target. (overrides any other result you would have got)
Your target was attacked but they were immune - vig, gf, mafioso, vamp or sk if your target is night immune *if your first target was framed you get this result*
You ignited your targets - Arso if you target self
You were attacked but were nurced back to health - If your target was a Doc and your second target was themselves and they were attacked or if your target is any role targeting the ww's, Medusa's or ambusher's target or an alert vet AND they were visited by a Doc (overrides other results)
You were attacked but someone protected you! - if your target is a any role targeting the ww's, Medusa's or ambusher's target or an alert vet AND they were visited by a Crusader (overrides other results)
You were attacked but your vest saved you - Surv or bg if your target was themselves and they were attacked
(insert name here) visited your target - Lookout if his target was visited
You staked someone - VH if your second target is a vampire
None - Any other scenario

The text for your results have a blue background to that you don't mistake them for what actually happened to you

This role gets little info most of the time but when he does get info he gets a lot of info at once.
Last edited by DoonLord on Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:48 pm, edited 13 times in total.
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
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Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:13 pm

so you made a consig town role

they only time it isnt a consig is if you pick a non visiting roles like

medium, spy, mayor, surv, guardian amnesaic, exe, jester ( i think i got them all)

and really none those roles kill people so no message just means you find someone you can trust the worst role there is exec/jestor

every other time it will give you an exact role based on message you see you made a consig town TI role but dressed it in fancy words

might add this role can find asro and WW(on non full moons) which sheriff cant

this even better than a consig cause if the second target is vet you confirm vet or if there was a BG/crusader OR doc or if second target is immune(if you use killing role to visit) or if there traps at that targets house or if the first/second target was jailed or if the second target is medusa the list goes on and on

if you know who TI are you can just use them to inves targets without fear of WW

this has to be one the Most OP TI roles i have seen cause it's actually better the consig impressed you thought of such an OP role but

nosupport
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:07 pm

Mystoc wrote:so you made a consig town role

they only time it isnt a consig is if you pick a non visiting roles like

medium, spy, mayor, surv, guardian amnesaic, exe, jester ( i think i got them all)

and really none those roles kill people so no message just means you find someone you can trust the worst role there is exec/jestor

every other time it will give you an exact role based on message you see you made a consig town TI role but dressed it in fancy words

might add this role can find asro and WW(on non full moons) which sheriff cant

this even better than a consig cause if the second target is vet you confirm vet or if there was a BG/crusader OR doc or if second target is immune(if you use killing role to visit) or if there traps at that targets house or if the first/second target was jailed or if the second target is medusa the list goes on and on

if you know who TI are you can just use them to inves targets without fear of WW

this has to be one the Most OP TI roles i have seen cause it's actually better the consig impressed you thought of such an OP role but

nosupport


Not sure if you realize this but most roles don't give results

All tp's don't give a result if the target isn't attacked

a WW visiting on non-full moons doesn't maul anyone (should probably clarify that that)

A killer doesn't get results if the target isn't immune

An arso only gets results if the target is themselves

A vet being your second target only gives results if he is on alert (and vets are easy to prove anyway)

A vet being your first target only gives results if your other target is himself

The only evil role he can find 100% of the time is the consig

I even made it so that the framer can tamper with the results

In the New update on PTR ANY role that can visit can find out if thier target was jailed

I am not sure what all of the messages for the Coven are so I will need to check for that
Last edited by DoonLord on Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
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Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:22 pm

Roles that it always gets results for:
Spoiler: Sheriff
Invest
Consig
PlagueBarrer
Tracker (almost always anyway)
Anyone who is targeting the WW's, Medusa's or Ambusher's target the or an alert vet

Roles that it only sometimes gets results for (not counting a self target):
Spoiler: Lookout
Escort
Consort
WW
Godfater(identical to a framed target)
Mafioso(identical to a framed target)
SK(identical to a framed target)
Vig(identical to a framed target)
Vamp(identical to a framed target)
Meduca
VH
BG
Doc
Crusader


Roles that Give information when other target is self:
Spoiler: Arso
WW (only sometimes)
Meduca
Vet
Doc(only sometimes)
BG(only sometimes)
Surv(only sometimes)


Roles that never give info:
Spoiler: Med
Spy
Phycic
Trapper (his trap is not caused by a visit and placing a trap does not give a message)
Ret
Jailor
Trans
Witch
Ambusher (I am probably wrong on this one, I couldn't find anything on the wiki about the ambusher getting results and I have never been this role)
BMer
Disg
Forger
Janitor
Framer
Hypnotist
Coven Leader
Potion Master
Hex Master
Poisoner
Necromancer
Amne
GA
Mayor
Jester
Exe
Pirate


Notice how the bottom list is the longest and contains a lot of mafia and also every NE?

Only 5 roles can always be found and only 2 of them are evil

This role can find a lot of roles but it is far from a consig as most result also require other things to be true.

Having you always make the target, Target themselves doesn't actualy give that much more info than an invest or a sheriff can (mafioso is identical to a vig and the escort looks the same as a consort and the GF/SK results could have been a framer messing with things ect...)
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
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viewtopic.php?f=27&t=69087
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:23 pm

Having them target self now only works if the first target could do so anyway on their own.
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
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viewtopic.php?f=27&t=69087
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:42 pm

Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:21 pm

lemonader666 wrote:Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

Did you even read my results list? Most interactions give a null result. The best way to use this role is to have it verify TI claims. Since an investigator can do that anyway it is similar in power to other TI's. There are exactly 2 scum it can confirm right now. One of them sheriff can already find and the other one is already fairly strong. What interaction are you worried about exactly?
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
Esper (Neutral Chaos)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=69087
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:25 pm

DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

Did you even read my results list? Most interactions give a null result. The best way to use this role is to have it verify TI claims. Since an investigator can do that anyway it is similar in power to other TI's. There are exactly 2 scum it can confirm right now. One of them sheriff can already find and the other one is already fairly strong. What interaction are you worried about exactly?

Every single role that gives their own specific night result.

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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:39 pm

lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

Did you even read my results list? Most interactions give a null result. The best way to use this role is to have it verify TI claims. Since an investigator can do that anyway it is similar in power to other TI's. There are exactly 2 scum it can confirm right now. One of them sheriff can already find and the other one is already fairly strong. What interaction are you worried about exactly?

Every single role that gives their own specific night result.

There are only 5 of those and only 2 of them are scum and none of them are killers. In comparison the sheriff can confirm 17 roles as scum. Only 1 of those results is inconsistent (WW) and there are only 2 killers that the sheriff can't find (Arso and gf). In the current ranked role list if you see an ns result there are only 2.5 scum slots they could have and early on they are probably good. It also means that there are 11 (17 on coven) roles they definitely aren't

The mathematician on the other hand:
Can't find coven
Can't find most mafia
Has most town results mixed in with most scum results

The main advantage is that it has and its main purpose is to:
A: safely confirm Vets or possible Ww targets or meducas

B:make more use out of known TI's

C: to get risk free info out of confirmed Vigs

D: to confirm multiple suspected killers as such (doesn't work with just one)
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
Esper (Neutral Chaos)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=69087
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:42 pm

DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

Did you even read my results list? Most interactions give a null result. The best way to use this role is to have it verify TI claims. Since an investigator can do that anyway it is similar in power to other TI's. There are exactly 2 scum it can confirm right now. One of them sheriff can already find and the other one is already fairly strong. What interaction are you worried about exactly?

Every single role that gives their own specific night result.

There are only 5 of those and only 2 of them are scum and none of them are killers. In comparison the sheriff can confirm 17 roles as scum. Only 1 of those results is inconsistent (WW) and there are only 2 killers that the sheriff can't find (Arso and gf). In the current ranked role list if you see an ns result there are only 2.5 scum slots they could have and early on they are probably good. It also means that there are 11 (17 on coven) roles they definitely aren't

The mathematician on the other hand:
Can't find coven
Can't find most mafia
Has most town results mixed in with most scum results

The main advantage is that it has and its main purpose is to:
A: safely confirm Vets or possible Ww targets or meducas

B:make more use out of known TI's

C: to get risk free info out of confirmed Vigs

D: to confirm multiple suspected killers as such (doesn't work with just one)

oohhhh, so a worse version of sheriff...

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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:55 pm

lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

Did you even read my results list? Most interactions give a null result. The best way to use this role is to have it verify TI claims. Since an investigator can do that anyway it is similar in power to other TI's. There are exactly 2 scum it can confirm right now. One of them sheriff can already find and the other one is already fairly strong. What interaction are you worried about exactly?

Every single role that gives their own specific night result.

There are only 5 of those and only 2 of them are scum and none of them are killers. In comparison the sheriff can confirm 17 roles as scum. Only 1 of those results is inconsistent (WW) and there are only 2 killers that the sheriff can't find (Arso and gf). In the current ranked role list if you see an ns result there are only 2.5 scum slots they could have and early on they are probably good. It also means that there are 11 (17 on coven) roles they definitely aren't

The mathematician on the other hand:
Can't find coven
Can't find most mafia
Has most town results mixed in with most scum results

The main advantage is that it has and its main purpose is to:
A: safely confirm Vets or possible Ww targets or meducas

B:make more use out of known TI's

C: to get risk free info out of confirmed Vigs

D: to confirm multiple suspected killers as such (doesn't work with just one)

oohhhh, so a worse version of sheriff...

Better but that wasn't my conclusion

The sheriff is there to find roles to place blame on

The investigator is there to catch people in a lie and limit scum claims

The Mathematician is there to verify accusations. Remember that the 3 town it can confirm are TI's


The Mathematician is definitely much worse at doing the sheriff's job compared to a sheriff. Same applies to an investigator. But in cases like someone saying the invest claim in a witch or a big claiming to have hit an immune this role does it better than the other two.
Town of Salem needs better goals.
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:01 pm

There should never be a town role that can confirm other towns. It's very OP.

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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:07 pm

lemonader666 wrote:There should never be a town role that can confirm other towns. It's very OP.

You mist hate the retributionist.

And the medium

And sometimes the Spy and Sheriff

Also the LO sometimes

Don't even get me started on the phycic
Town of Salem needs better goals.
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:08 pm

DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:There should never be a town role that can confirm other towns. It's very OP.

You mist hate the retributionist.

And the medium

And sometimes the Spy and Sheriff

Also the LO sometimes

Don't even get me started on the phycic

No i meant auto confirm. Ret is an OP role but we can't do anything about it. Medium/Spy/Sheriff/Lookout can't be confirm easily is a good fakeclaim. Psychic was shit.

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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:15 pm

lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:There should never be a town role that can confirm other towns. It's very OP.

You mist hate the retributionist.

And the medium

And sometimes the Spy and Sheriff

Also the LO sometimes

Don't even get me started on the phycic

No i meant auto confirm. Ret is an OP role but we can't do anything about it. Medium/Spy/Sheriff/Lookout can't be confirm easily is a good fakeclaim. Psychic was shit.

Mediums auto confirm each other (don't even need to find each other)
LO can confirm Tp and other roles under certain circumstances
Sheriff can auto confirm all non scum if the GF, NE and Arso are gone
Spy auto confirms anyone visited by maf if the NE and NK are gone

Right now the invest is the only TI can can't confirm roles
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby lemonader666 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:22 pm

DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:There should never be a town role that can confirm other towns. It's very OP.

You mist hate the retributionist.

And the medium

And sometimes the Spy and Sheriff

Also the LO sometimes

Don't even get me started on the phycic

No i meant auto confirm. Ret is an OP role but we can't do anything about it. Medium/Spy/Sheriff/Lookout can't be confirm easily is a good fakeclaim. Psychic was shit.

Mediums auto confirm each other (don't even need to find each other) Depends if death chat actually talks back and depends on if medium rolls twice
LO can confirm Tp and other roles under certain circumstances But that doesn't mean they are town. They could just be a scum that can visit.
Sheriff can auto confirm all non scum if the GF, NE and Arso are gone But that doesn't mean sheriff is the real sheriff. Everyone can claim sheriff.
Spy auto confirms anyone visited by maf if the NE and NK are gone So does a member of the mafia. They could just fakeclaim like that.

Right now the invest is the only TI can can't confirm roles False, every TI roles can be easily fakeclaimed.

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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:32 pm

lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:There should never be a town role that can confirm other towns. It's very OP.

You mist hate the retributionist.

And the medium

And sometimes the Spy and Sheriff

Also the LO sometimes

Don't even get me started on the phycic

No i meant auto confirm. Ret is an OP role but we can't do anything about it. Medium/Spy/Sheriff/Lookout can't be confirm easily is a good fakeclaim. Psychic was shit.

Mediums auto confirm each other (don't even need to find each other) Depends if death chat actually talks back and depends on if medium rolls twice
LO can confirm Tp and other roles under certain circumstances But that doesn't mean they are town. They could just be a scum that can visit.
Sheriff can auto confirm all non scum if the GF, NE and Arso are gone But that doesn't mean sheriff is the real sheriff. Everyone can claim sheriff.
Spy auto confirms anyone visited by maf if the NE and NK are gone So does a member of the mafia. They could just fakeclaim like that.

Right now the invest is the only TI can can't confirm roles False, every TI roles can be easily fakeclaimed.

The fake claim argument apply to this one almost as much as any other and is about as easy to claim as a LO. Just put down a bunch of null results until you know a few roles. As long as your target claims aren't TI's you will be fine. This makes it a better fake claim than sheriff as you can more convincingly frame people late game by saying they are immune or that they are sus to one of the other TI's

Also the point I was making was that TI's usually have results that prove that someone is town. Getting people to believe those results is another story.
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Bump
Town of Salem needs better goals.
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby Seththeking » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:43 pm

lemonader666 wrote:
DoonLord wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:Can confirm town and scum easily.
/nosupport

Did you even read my results list? Most interactions give a null result. The best way to use this role is to have it verify TI claims. Since an investigator can do that anyway it is similar in power to other TI's. There are exactly 2 scum it can confirm right now. One of them sheriff can already find and the other one is already fairly strong. What interaction are you worried about exactly?

Every single role that gives their own specific night result.


*Ahem*
First Off I Support this Role for 2 Reasons, 1 New TI Concept And 2 Harder to Find Scum.
I’m also going to try and get what I’m about to say approve by the staff because every time Lemonader talks and maybe even Shilster
(IDK Lemonader is way worse) Anyway it should say every time he posts: I am full of Pillon, what I am about to Type is a total bad move. That Should Clear Things Up Because Lemonader can’t read properly, can’t Scum Read at all, And When he plays a Scum role he is hella easy too read. And He Finds it Amusing to do /Nosupport to people he doesn’t admire
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby Blayzeatron » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:18 pm

Would you find the mafioso if there is a godfather alive? Because the mafioso always receives the 'the godfather has ordered you to kill his target' no matter who he targets. Unless the gf is rb'ed, jailed or dead ofc.
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:18 pm

any visiting role sees a message at the end of night based on the message you can tell what role they are

this is a town consig most of times the results the give no message are very few

i think OP hasn't played many of these roles because he thinks some of these don't a give message at the end of the night

under your roles that never give a message a lot of those do give message
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby Shilster » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:44 am

Too OP
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby Shilster » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:52 am

Nopingout wrote:The necro tho

Basically all TIs and many roles in TOS including practically all scum roles will have a notification unique to them. It's hard to come up with an original idea but this doesn't cut.


OP bumped it
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby BS4125 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:58 am

Please justify your views so the OP understands exactly what's wrong with the role and how it is unsatisfactory.

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Mathematician (Town Invest)

Postby DoonLord » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:35 pm

I gave a list of all the results. Most roles do have a unique vist result (I need to add in spy's) But all but 5 of those only show under specific circumstances. Of the 5 that always appear none of them are killers.

For example the escort and consort only receive a result that this role cares about if the other target is SK. (you were killed by the sk you visited!). This means that if you suspect someone of being SK and you think you know an escort then you can confirm both suspicions at once. Otherwise you will rarely get anything from an escort/consort.

FYI if you target a mafioso then it will not display the GF message. It displays the message he gets for VISITING the target, it assumes nothing is stopping the visit attempt such as an roleblock or a control, the GF counts as this and is thus ignored. Either target being jailed however will stop the ability, and you get only 1 message per use of the ability so you would never see the "GF ordered you to attack his target" message.
Town of Salem needs better goals.
Marathon Runner (Neutral Benign)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67093
Mathmatition (Town Investigator)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=68268
Esper (Neutral Chaos)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=69087
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