Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

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Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Mon May 29, 2017 11:47 am

As its been suggested I make one of these. Here is my best attempt.

Basics
For a new faction ask yourself a few questions:
  • Is it already made?
  • Are the names / themes taken?
  • Is it a clone?
  • Would it work?
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Reasons
-If its already made, unless you're making it better or taking its idea and developing it, its not going to be good or helpful to the game.
-
-If the names or theme are taken, people will complain about it and compare your faction to roles with the same names or theme. Say your a copy cat.
-
-If you're making a faction that is just a blue version of the mafia. Don't waste everyone's time. No ones going to bat an eye at an already made faction.
-
-If the faction itself cant work well together or work so well alone that it might as well not be a faction. Its not a good idea. A faction should have an impact on the game, work well together and be weaker alone. (Unless your faction has an idea of having less people, but ill get onto that later)
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Faction ideas
Currently there are 2 main ideas for a faction.
  1. Keeping the game going until a set point
  2. Killing off everyone who is against you

Or a combo of the 2. However, if you can come up with a new idea. Try it, people like seeing new and unique roles/ideas.
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Roles that tend to be needed

Starting with killing off your foes. You're gunna need certain roles. These include:

  1. A Killer (or a way for the whole faction to kill someone)
  2. Some sort of investigative (Your faction needs info to work with)
  3. Some role that can hide / disrupt info (Without it, unless you're making a faction that are detection immune, your faction will need a way to not be found)
  4. Other roles that can impact the game in the factions.

You can make roles that defend other faction members, but they tend to be frowned upon as killing factions should be on the offensive
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For factions with a set day to survive to, they need different roles...

  1. A killer or way to kill (not as much as the other factions, as this is a survival faction, however, its a good idea to have a way to get rid of threats)
  2. Investigative (to know who will become a threat / who will make the game end quickly)
  3. Disrupting roles (roles that role-block, blackmail, destroy info, etc. As these will make the game last longer and that is the whole point)
  4. Defensive roles (they are needed to keep your allies alive in a survival faction)
    Other roles that can impact the game in the factions favour

Do not add too many killing into this faction as its meant to survive not kill
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Invest Results
All evils need a claim. So try to match abilities to set results. If a role can invest, put it with Investigator / Consig / Mayor. If it was somewhere else, how would it claim and explain its ability. It wouldn't, it would die. Putting them with roles like medium isn't a good idea as non provable roles or easily faked roles are hung often. Examples include medium, sheriff, survivor, executioner, lookout, etc.
Make sure there aren't 2 roles from the faction inside the result, unless they cant be in at the same time. This would be unfair and get them hung too easily.
Worst case, make your own results. Or even a whole different game mode. But be warned, people may not like this idea.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Conversion
Myself, I don't mind conversion roles. However the majority of people dislike roles that change win-cons, they can take away wins from people. So avoid this idea unless it fits in and makes sense. But Vampires are a bad example, so don't make a vampires 2.0
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Balance
Basics. Don't kill so fast its no fun and OP. Don't kill so slow its pointless (unless its a survival). Don't make them all night immune. etc etc, this is obv. Also don't make them all defy basic game mechanics, but having like 1 or 2 is fine.
New ideas could break many of these rules to fit in. But don't be stupid about it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Amount
Basic of a faction is that you want at least 5 roles that work together. And normally have 1 leader in the faction. But as stated before, you can change this. Max is 11 (maybe 12 - 13) as there are 11 invest results thus far. Of course to add more, make it so it cant appear with the other roles from the faction that are in the invest results.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Feedback
No one likes being told "ITS SHIIIIIIIT" however. Feedback tends to be your friend. It tends to build up the faction and fix parts of it. If everyone is telling you its bad. Find out why. If you don't agree with their changes, you don't need to add it, however, ask others what they think. Its suggested to changed to what the people want.
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Lore and summary
People love lore, but do it after balancing. Balance > Lore. If you have an EPIC lore...but a role that makes people want to jump off a bridge. Its not going to work. People tend to only read a lore if -
A) The faction is good
B) The role in the faction is good
C) If they like what you have done in the past
Lores help build up a factions character and theme.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
What I tend to do
I myself having made 3 factions. Two being Killing all and one being a survival. I aim for a few things.
Unique despite similar goals - Example is that the Demon and Elemental Faction have the same goal as the mafia faction. However they have different roles and mechanics. Demons could be said they are a mafia with different roles. But well, most factions will be. The mafia just happened to be first. The Elemental faction have a same goal, but all roles can kill and do diff actions. (Made a 4th, that one is Guardians with a "Special" goal)
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Ignoring thee non faithful - People have said many times that new factions wont be added and that I'm wasting my time. Spectre0 is a perfect example. However, Coven was added. Already proving them wrong. So even if you get hate, unless its hate about your roles being bad, ignore it, move on.
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Aiming for 11 roles - as there are 11 results, I always aim for 11 roles.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sub alignments - Within a faction adding sub alignments makes it easier to understand and look better. Its helpful to split up the roles. Try to make the sub alignments roles similar in ability. Example - A role that can blackmail should be with a role that can vote-block.
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Roles from others - Taking an idea from others isn't bad as long as you ask permission and refer them. I tend to change the idea slightly.
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Power - roles shouldn't be different in power. One may be less powerful in one way but must make up for it in another way. Having some weak and some strong isn't a good idea. Its too swingy
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Using new effects - Ive used effects that arent in game. All the effects I use -
Blackmail (The person cant talk)
Chat-Block (Cant see chat)
Vote-Block (Means people cant vote people up)
Role-Block (Stops them doing their night action)
Decision-Block (Can vote people up but cant inno / guilty)
Vote-Switch (The persons inno and guilty vote is switched (vote inno make you guilty, vise versa)
Switch-talk (The person can type in chat and when they do they will see their messages, but no one else will. Its much like blackmailing but they arent told. Other people who have the same effect however can read eachovers. So It can end up like a secret chat)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Examples
The Guardians - http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=70617
Spirit Faction - https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67945
Demon Faction - https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=60114
Elemental Faction - https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67995
The Cult - https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=61234&hilit
The Bratva - https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=61358&hilit
Neo-town - http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67750
Thieves Guild - http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67255
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Helpful Link - The discord is great for balancing and asking for people's opinions - https://discord.gg/QdGQyq
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Helpful People - Pm these people as they will help you and have experience / knowledge - Me, Timurtheking, Parallax, Buckeyenation, Mrincendary88, Gooose26
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
-Sh99er (Moderator of Faction Development Discord)
Last edited by sh99er on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:11 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Parallax7 » Mon May 29, 2017 12:13 pm

This is definitely a great thread to help noobs.
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby timurtheking » Mon May 29, 2017 2:00 pm

Parallax7 wrote:This is definitely a great thread to help noobs.

agreed.
Check out my ideas:
The Philosophers (New Faction)
Witch Change/buff
Favourite Roles: Jailor, Transporter, Veteran, Serial Killer, Consigliere, Mayor, Godfather and Witch
Disliked Roles: Framer, Arsonist, Medium and Retributionist
I prefer editing and balancing roles more than creating roles.
My Ranked Name is usually Monarchy with the demon skin who has a ghost pet.
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Insonnolito » Mon May 29, 2017 2:02 pm

Thank you so much for this! I can tell you spent a lot of time on it! Gonna start reading now. :)
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby TheNightmareFox » Mon May 29, 2017 2:11 pm

hey can i just ask what i should change my faction name to?

also HOW DO I PUT A LINK TO MY FACTION LIKE U DO?
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby timurtheking » Mon May 29, 2017 2:22 pm

TheNightmareFox wrote:hey can i just ask what i should change my faction name to?

also HOW DO I PUT A LINK TO MY FACTION LIKE U DO?


use the URL button. Also maybe change your faction name to Monsters/Satanists/Occult/Hell faction whatever floats your boat.
Check out my ideas:
The Philosophers (New Faction)
Witch Change/buff
Favourite Roles: Jailor, Transporter, Veteran, Serial Killer, Consigliere, Mayor, Godfather and Witch
Disliked Roles: Framer, Arsonist, Medium and Retributionist
I prefer editing and balancing roles more than creating roles.
My Ranked Name is usually Monarchy with the demon skin who has a ghost pet.
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Mon May 29, 2017 2:32 pm

Insonnolito wrote:Thank you so much for this! I can tell you spent a lot of time on it! Gonna start reading now. :)

No problem :D!
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Venusupreme » Tue May 30, 2017 6:40 am

You put a lot of effort into this, and it's filled with great advice.

I honestly don't think we need any more factions to be added into the game. We already have Mafia, Vampires, and Coven. If people want to create stuff to have fun with on the PTR (and I've seen plenty of great ideas for this), then so be it, but we can't have 17 different mafia-esque factions in the game, no matter how good they all are.

That said, I love this post. For anyone who wants to have some fun creating a new faction, this is the place to look for help.
Heya. You may know me as Sixteen.

My proudest achievement: Rogue!

Please, BMG, make Jailor unable to jail the same person two nights in a row.


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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Tue May 30, 2017 8:23 am

Venusupreme wrote:You put a lot of effort into this, and it's filled with great advice.

I honestly don't think we need any more factions to be added into the game. We already have Mafia, Vampires, and Coven. If people want to create stuff to have fun with on the PTR (and I've seen plenty of great ideas for this), then so be it, but we can't have 17 different mafia-esque factions in the game, no matter how good they all are.

That said, I love this post. For anyone who wants to have some fun creating a new faction, this is the place to look for help.


1) Thank you
2) I think we can add more, they can always spice up the game and plus they can be in separate game modes (excluding all any)
3) Also not all of them are like mafia, some are unique and special like the Spirits, Insonnolito's upcoming Pacifist faction and ProfessorArceuses + Timurtheking's upcoming Philosopher Faction.
4) Thanks again :P
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Venusupreme » Tue May 30, 2017 9:44 am

sh99er wrote:
Venusupreme wrote:You put a lot of effort into this, and it's filled with great advice.

I honestly don't think we need any more factions to be added into the game. We already have Mafia, Vampires, and Coven. If people want to create stuff to have fun with on the PTR (and I've seen plenty of great ideas for this), then so be it, but we can't have 17 different mafia-esque factions in the game, no matter how good they all are.

That said, I love this post. For anyone who wants to have some fun creating a new faction, this is the place to look for help.


1) Thank you
2) I think we can add more, they can always spice up the game and plus they can be in separate game modes (excluding all any)
3) Also not all of them are like mafia, some are unique and special like the Spirits, Insonnolito's upcoming Pacifist faction and ProfessorArceuses + Timurtheking's upcoming Philosopher Faction.
4) Thanks again :P


When I say "Mafia-esque", I mean factions that are meant to have the minority, Town has to kill, and can chat with each other at night. But yes, I see your point.
Heya. You may know me as Sixteen.

My proudest achievement: Rogue!

Please, BMG, make Jailor unable to jail the same person two nights in a row.


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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby AegonSnow » Tue May 30, 2017 10:11 pm

Also, don't just focus on roles for the "faction"

If you can think of roles that would work in town or neutral roles that can fit a similar theme, add them.

The Coven Update does that. It not only adds the Coven, but add Town, Mafia, and Neutral roles.
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Venusupreme » Wed May 31, 2017 8:33 am

AegonSnow wrote:Also, don't just focus on roles for the "faction"

If you can think of roles that would work in town or neutral roles that can fit a similar theme, add them.

The Coven Update does that. It not only adds the Coven, but add Town, Mafia, and Neutral roles.

This. If we were on Reddit, you'd have my upvote.
Heya. You may know me as Sixteen.

My proudest achievement: Rogue!

Please, BMG, make Jailor unable to jail the same person two nights in a row.


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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Mystoc » Wed May 31, 2017 7:07 pm

you have really inspired a lot people i've seen like 5 new factions threads in the past two days

but

i'm starting see a lot new factions the originally have it so there needs to be another faction besides them in the game for them to work (like mafia)

this unbalanced to town casue it takes away their power to vote i would like hear sh99er's opinion on this if they agree with me please add that has a thing not do .

for ranked games it isn't balanced to have 2 factions cause that takes up 6 roles slots which takes aways towns power of being the majority and there voting power

maybe for all any it would be ok but those aren't balanced games is my point
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Wed May 31, 2017 7:49 pm

Mystoc wrote:you have really inspired a lot people i've seen like 5 new factions threads in the past two days

but

i'm starting see a lot new factions the originally have it so there needs to be another faction besides them in the game for them to work (like mafia)

this unbalanced to town casue it takes away their power to vote i would like hear sh99er's opinion on this if they agree with me please add that has a thing not do .

for ranked games it isn't balanced to have 2 factions cause that takes up 6 roles slots which takes aways towns power of being the majority and there voting power

maybe for all any it would be ok but those aren't balanced games is my point


Im fairly sure most of these Factions would be used in a few ways.
Most likely - A version of ranked / ranked practice with the faction's roles in it (or a diff set of role lists)
2nd - All any / custom
3rd - Coven like (A DLC)
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby Fenraiser » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:29 am

I am bookmarking this.

Popped in to see if I was deleted. I was not.
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:36 pm

Bump
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby JGaming08 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:38 pm

Factions factions factions.

Your great at it sh99er! I've actually been trying to make one myself and I'll probably use tis' thread for help.


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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:41 pm

JGaming08 wrote:Factions factions factions.

Your great at it sh99er! I've actually been trying to make one myself and I'll probably use tis' thread for help.


Good jawb.


Yeah also use the discord, it helps
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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sh99er
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby JGaming08 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:42 pm

sh99er wrote:
JGaming08 wrote:Factions factions factions.

Your great at it sh99er! I've actually been trying to make one myself and I'll probably use tis' thread for help.


Good jawb.


Yeah also use the discord, it helps

I don't have discord ;-;
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Re: Faction Development Help Thread (For making a faction)

Postby sh99er » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:57 pm

JGaming08 wrote:
sh99er wrote:
JGaming08 wrote:Factions factions factions.

Your great at it sh99er! I've actually been trying to make one myself and I'll probably use tis' thread for help.


Good jawb.


Yeah also use the discord, it helps

I don't have discord ;-;

Its easy to make an account, come, we have plenty of people who will help.
Check out my ideas:
My Guardian Faction
My Elemental Faction
My Spirit Faction
My Demon Faction

After agreeing that as Godfather id have my mafioso make food for me, here was a funny response.
Jezz wrote:Godfather: mafioso, make me a sandwich
Mafioso: ...we kinda should kill one of our enemies tonight sir
Godfather: no I'm hungry fuck you
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