Patch 2.0.2

All patch notes are archived here.

Patch 2.0.2

Postby PyromonkeyGG » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:35 pm

Hey Townies!

We are releasing patch 2.0.2 tonight. This patch will be adding a few things with it, and will have a lot of bug fixes as well.

Patch notes on Login

First and foremost one the most important things moving forward is that the patch notes are now view-able on the login screen. This will help all players to stay up to date with the latest changes.

Ranked Off Season

Today marks the beginning of the ranked off season. This means that all Elo is being locked and won't change until the start of Ranked Season 1.

Ranked Rewards Coming Soon

With the off season starting we will be working on getting out the ranked rewards for the "Legacy Season" out ASAP!

Coven Ranked Practice

With the off season starting we will be implementing Coven Ranked Practice. Over the coming weeks we will be looking at the win rates of each faction and role in this mode and looking at the overall balance of this list. We will adjust it as necessary.

Hypnotist Has a New UI

The Hypnotist now has the ability to pick and choose what message is sent to the player that they hypnotize. This means that they have more control over what roles they can counter claim, or what roles they can fake are in the game.

Investigator Results Split

We originally had the Coven and original Town of Salem investigative results show up the same. This confused some people as not all the roles in the list are possible in the original game. The investigative results aren't changing themselves, but the results in the original game modes won't have the new roles included.

Coven Friends

Your friends list now knows who owns The Coven so you more easily make games with them. There will be a small blood moon icon around their online status indicating if they own The Coven. If they don't have this icon it means they don't own The Coven.

Jailor Death Note Replacement

We have received a lot of feedback about taking the Jailor's death note away. We are exploring a way to explain why they executed a player in their note. This will not be something that you can type in as we still don't want you to be able to reveal too much information anonymously.

Various Bug Fixes

We have fixed many bugs and typos with this patch. If you encounter a bug, or a typo, please make sure to let us know!


Happy Hanging!
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Ameen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:43 pm

so...spy is still useless :D

in any case, estimated time for patch update (GMT) please
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Jerme » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:31 pm

I wonder which bugs are/will be fixed. Can you elaborate a bit further, or note the major fixes?
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Kronemeyer » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:38 pm

Some feedback

I'm glad that the patch notes have easier access to users, that would avoid some people who ruins a game because they aren't aware of the most recent changes.

I'm also happy about the reward thingy, I know I would probably get nothing from it because I'm not a high elo player myself (I'm like 1340 or something), but I feel curious about what kind of rewards can people get from ranked seasons, it would be nice to see it.


I'll be waiting to see what is coven ranked practice rolelist, since classic rolelist made me unhappy about how unbalanced it is. Having a starting 8v7 (8 town vs 7 evil), where the 7 evils include 4 coven with almost all killing power roles (coven leader can drain after some days, potion master can kill, poisoner can kill, hex master can kill, medusa can kill) feels like unfair from town, since potion master and medusa can get a kill n1, leaving town in a 6v7 disadvantage (only at day 2, assuming that pirate doesn't plunder anyone, if pirate plunders a town it would ve 5v7 just in day 2), I really hope you guys take a second look to the list and make some changes, in vanilla ToS a starting 8v7 isn't that bad because not all mafia roles have killing power, coven is a different case and it should be treated different.


I'm glad that hypnotist will be fixed, the PTR didn't fill my expectations about this role. The investigation and coven friend freatures seems pretty useful too.


I'd like to know what bugs did you guys fix though. Also, I'd like to know if the playerbase would be able to test ranked rolelist changes or elo changes for the season 1.


The only thing I'm unhappy about is that spy still sucks...
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby PyromonkeyGG » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:07 pm

Jerme wrote:I wonder which bugs are/will be fixed. Can you elaborate a bit further, or note the major fixes?


A lot of achievement bugs, friends list related issues, and a couple of role interactions. Now that we will be posting patch notes with every patch, even hot fixes, we will be keeping much better track of these fixes moving forward.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Derpyspaghetti » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:11 pm

The jailor death note's partially returning?

Honestly, I prefer this version. I often would reveal scummy-but-not-executable claims through my DN, so not too much is being said here, but there should be less toxicity.

The Invest results split is good, I hated the coven results being in vanilla.

Coven RP? I was waiting for this.

"Ranked Off Season

Today marks the beginning of the ranked off season. This means that all Elo is being locked and won't change until the start of Ranked Season 1.

Ranked Rewards Coming Soon

With the off season starting we will be working on getting out the ranked rewards for the "Legacy Season" out ASAP!"

These two I have a little issue with. My main account, which turned out to be the account I ended up dropping quite a bit of elo with will not get any prizes with this. I'm not complaining, this is my own fault, but I was wondering if we could transfer things from account to account (as I have an alt account at around 1300 elo). I know I won't get much, but it would be nice to be able to give over the skins I've bought now that the account is useless.

Maybe a trading system for items, TP, and MP between accounts could be considered?
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby PyromonkeyGG » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:08 pm

We won't be able to transfer rewards between accounts. If we decided to do a trading system, I would think that rewards from that kind of stuff would not be trade-able anyway.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:52 am

Honestly, I don't believe this rolelist will work out. Town doesnt start with majority as it should (there should be a minimum of 10 Town, relying on Mafia and NK's Killing each other is not how a competitive game should be played) and there are FOUR COVEN ROLES all of which have the ability to kill more or less. Medusa/Poisoner/Potion Master would be a nightmare in comparison to Necromancer/Hex Master/Potion Master. Here is my ideal list:

Mayor/Jailor/Trapper
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town

Random Coven
Random Coven
Random Coven

Amnesiac

With all the Coven roles that can kill it makes sense to include two protectives, and makes no sense to include a Neutral Killing role since there could potentially be four kills per night. With all that claimspace town will have to rely solely on themselves to win the game, and VFR is more or less nullified, something a lot of players want, and it enforces scumreading, which is good for the game. Including Amnesiac makes sense in case a Coven member dies early given its new fix, NE just serves no purpose in the game, NK would add too many kills, and Any would just be swingy - imagine the shift from Retributionist to serial Killer. Not to mention the unfairety of a lone mafia member.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Naru2008 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:29 am

The Forum link links to the last hot-patch and not the 2.0.2 update.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby MarkLazuli » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:52 am

Something that I kinda wish was also added was being able to see the role list by clicking on the game mode, I was at school, when I read the patch notes and I couldn't play, but I did want to see the role list, I can wait till later to see the role lists but it would be useful to see the role list easier.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby WittyRecluse » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:45 am

Kirize12 wrote:Honestly, I don't believe this rolelist will work out. Town doesnt start with majority as it should (there should be a minimum of 10 Town, relying on Mafia and NK's Killing each other is not how a competitive game should be played) and there are FOUR COVEN ROLES all of which have the ability to kill more or less. Medusa/Poisoner/Potion Master would be a nightmare in comparison to Necromancer/Hex Master/Potion Master. Here is my ideal list:

Mayor/Jailor/Trapper
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town

Random Coven
Random Coven
Random Coven

Amnesiac

With all the Coven roles that can kill it makes sense to include two protectives, and makes no sense to include a Neutral Killing role since there could potentially be four kills per night. With all that claimspace town will have to rely solely on themselves to win the game, and VFR is more or less nullified, something a lot of players want, and it enforces scumreading, which is good for the game. Including Amnesiac makes sense in case a Coven member dies early given its new fix, NE just serves no purpose in the game, NK would add too many kills, and Any would just be swingy - imagine the shift from Retributionist to serial Killer. Not to mention the unfairety of a lone mafia member.

There's only an average of about 2 kills per night I believe, correct? In that case, with your set-up, day two is going to be at 10v3 at worst, because with this set-up, there is no reason whatsoever for amnesiac to go evil. With those numbers, there is no incentive for evils to be active; instead, they have to rely on Town being stupid and mislynching each other - which could happen based on that amount of RT, and that is not what should be happening in a competetive setup.

There's literally no way coven can win with that set-up due to the confirmability of town roles. Town would have so much margin for error that vig could even random shoot just to confirm himself.

I can understand maybe having guarranteed 9 town given the killing power of coven, but then it should be something like

Jailor
TI
TI
TS
TK
TP
RT
RT
RT
CL
RC
RC
NK
NE
NB
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Fullerman37 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:48 am

Well, I'd say the best update here is that we can see the patch notes on the login screen. Seems as if there is going to be a major nerf to Coven roles in the coming future though.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:04 pm

WittyRecluse wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Honestly, I don't believe this rolelist will work out. Town doesnt start with majority as it should (there should be a minimum of 10 Town, relying on Mafia and NK's Killing each other is not how a competitive game should be played) and there are FOUR COVEN ROLES all of which have the ability to kill more or less. Medusa/Poisoner/Potion Master would be a nightmare in comparison to Necromancer/Hex Master/Potion Master. Here is my ideal list:

Mayor/Jailor/Trapper
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town

Random Coven
Random Coven
Random Coven

Amnesiac

With all the Coven roles that can kill it makes sense to include two protectives, and makes no sense to include a Neutral Killing role since there could potentially be four kills per night. With all that claimspace town will have to rely solely on themselves to win the game, and VFR is more or less nullified, something a lot of players want, and it enforces scumreading, which is good for the game. Including Amnesiac makes sense in case a Coven member dies early given its new fix, NE just serves no purpose in the game, NK would add too many kills, and Any would just be swingy - imagine the shift from Retributionist to serial Killer. Not to mention the unfairety of a lone mafia member.

There's only an average of about 2 kills per night I believe, correct? In that case, with your set-up, day two is going to be at 10v3 at worst, because with this set-up, there is no reason whatsoever for amnesiac to go evil. With those numbers, there is no incentive for evils to be active; instead, they have to rely on Town being stupid and mislynching each other - which could happen based on that amount of RT, and that is not what should be happening in a competetive setup.

There's literally no way coven can win with that set-up due to the confirmability of town roles. Town would have so much margin for error that vig could even random shoot just to confirm himself.

I can understand maybe having guarranteed 9 town given the killing power of coven, but then it should be something like

Jailor
TI
TI
TS
TK
TP
RT
RT
RT
CL
RC
RC
NK
NE
NB

In most Mafia-based games, 10v3 is standard, and with adequate claimspace and decent balance, it is actually not that townsided. If a few neutrals are thrown in, then Town would win even less.

Anyway, I think that the Coven should only get a steady single kill per night because right now it is way to swingy for competitive play.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:02 pm

Witty, the Coven ranges from zero kills per night (until they get the Necronomicon) to 3 if the right setup rolls. You're forgetting my setup has five random Town, meaning scum have unlimited claimspace. Due to the killing power of the Coven, day 2 would be, on average, 9v3 even with no NK. Coven is very swingy to balance since like I said it can have no kills per night until they get the Necronomicon or have 3 KPN starting N1. But Town should have both a majority and claimspace, meaning player skill is the sole factor that determines the winner, not having to rely on other teams Killing each other or being confirmed via PoE.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby AshemaDeva » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:34 pm

-void-

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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:36 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Witty, the Coven ranges from zero kills per night (until they get the Necronomicon) to 3 if the right setup rolls. You're forgetting my setup has five random Town, meaning scum have unlimited claimspace. Due to the killing power of the Coven, day 2 would be, on average, 9v3 even with no NK. Coven is very swingy to balance since like I said it can have no kills per night until they get the Necronomicon or have 3 KPN starting N1. But Town should have both a majority and claimspace, meaning player skill is the sole factor that determines the winner, not having to rely on other teams Killing each other or being confirmed via PoE.

Besides a Coven killing overhaul, the only other thing that I could think of to fix the KPN swing is by making fixed Coven roles, but that is just repetitive and boring. I'd prefer that to the possibility of 0-3 KPN.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby WittyRecluse » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:48 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Witty, the Coven ranges from zero kills per night (until they get the Necronomicon) to 3 if the right setup rolls. You're forgetting my setup has five random Town, meaning scum have unlimited claimspace. Due to the killing power of the Coven, day 2 would be, on average, 9v3 even with no NK. Coven is very swingy to balance since like I said it can have no kills per night until they get the Necronomicon or have 3 KPN starting N1. But Town should have both a majority and claimspace, meaning player skill is the sole factor that determines the winner, not having to rely on other teams Killing each other or being confirmed via PoE.

9v3 is ridiculous, as everyone who actually plays the game can tell you.

If coven is RC, CL, and Medusa, they get one kill (maybe 2 if PM) n1, that's not OP at all. This isn't FM, this is TOS, and actually playing the game shows that current ranked numbers work fine for town. A lot of people also use the false argument that claimspace is all you need to make scum win more, which isn't true, any good town can figure out scum even with infinite claimspace through voting patterns, scumreading, confirmed roles, etc.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Krishna101 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:31 pm

Alright, I am extremely surprised that changes to a spy have not been announced in this patch. The spy has become the most trash town role because the developers thought nerfing it a hundred times would make the role better for the game. Why not just remove it if you hate it so much? Or, if you really want to fix it, let it hear whispers but not read the mafia chat at all. After all, you developers completely crushed the spy with the mafia-knows update. Why bother having the role listen to the mafia chat if the mafia chat can't talk info at all? In every game I play as a spy, all I would EVER hear from the mafia chat would be "hi spy" and then no more talk for the rest of the game. Now forget about criticism, let's talk problem-fixing. Making the spy able to hear whispers helps confirm the spy, and without it, the spy will not be able to confirm itself at all. Also, having the blackmailer be the only role to read whispers? REALLY? Nerfing the spy's whisper capability buffs the blackmailer automatically since mafia now knows town's whispers, and the town won't whisper clues at all with a blackmailer around. Spies were meant to hear whispers from town to gather clues for other town members like the jailor, but now all the clues they get are the most useless ones. 2nd fix: get rid of mafia/coven knowing about the spy and let spy not read mafia/coven chat. If you truly want to balance the spy, that is your best option. Do nothing, and watch the committing suicide rates rise for people roleplaying as a spy. All you are doing by nerfing the role is by making people hate it even more, which I'm sure you don't want.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby FrankLeeAwful » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:28 pm

Krishna101 wrote:Alright, I am extremely surprised that changes to a spy have not been announced in this patch. The spy has become the most trash town role because the developers thought nerfing it a hundred times would make the role better for the game. Why not just remove it if you hate it so much? Or, if you really want to fix it, let it hear whispers but not read the mafia chat at all. After all, you developers completely crushed the spy with the mafia-knows update. Why bother having the role listen to the mafia chat if the mafia chat can't talk info at all? In every game I play as a spy, all I would EVER hear from the mafia chat would be "hi spy" and then no more talk for the rest of the game. Now forget about criticism, let's talk problem-fixing. Making the spy able to hear whispers helps confirm the spy, and without it, the spy will not be able to confirm itself at all. Also, having the blackmailer be the only role to read whispers? REALLY? Nerfing the spy's whisper capability buffs the blackmailer automatically since mafia now knows town's whispers, and the town won't whisper clues at all with a blackmailer around. Spies were meant to hear whispers from town to gather clues for other town members like the jailor, but now all the clues they get are the most useless ones. 2nd fix: get rid of mafia/coven knowing about the spy and let spy not read mafia/coven chat. If you truly want to balance the spy, that is your best option. Do nothing, and watch the committing suicide rates rise for people roleplaying as a spy. All you are doing by nerfing the role is by making people hate it even more, which I'm sure you don't want.


Spy was changed before this patch, and is due for a complete rework.

No role should read whispers. I have to assume that will be changed for the Blackmailer, as well.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby PyromonkeyGG » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:57 pm

Krishna101 wrote:Making the spy able to hear whispers helps confirm the spy, and without it, the spy will not be able to confirm itself at all.


Correct. We feel that Town roles that can confirm themselves make for less interesting gameplay and less claim space for evil roles. This is something we are now trying to avoid if we can.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:48 pm

WittyRecluse wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Witty, the Coven ranges from zero kills per night (until they get the Necronomicon) to 3 if the right setup rolls. You're forgetting my setup has five random Town, meaning scum have unlimited claimspace. Due to the killing power of the Coven, day 2 would be, on average, 9v3 even with no NK. Coven is very swingy to balance since like I said it can have no kills per night until they get the Necronomicon or have 3 KPN starting N1. But Town should have both a majority and claimspace, meaning player skill is the sole factor that determines the winner, not having to rely on other teams Killing each other or being confirmed via PoE.

9v3 is ridiculous, as everyone who actually plays the game can tell you.

If coven is RC, CL, and Medusa, they get one kill (maybe 2 if PM) n1, that's not OP at all. This isn't FM, this is TOS, and actually playing the game shows that current ranked numbers work fine for town. A lot of people also use the false argument that claimspace is all you need to make scum win more, which isn't true, any good town can figure out scum even with infinite claimspace through voting patterns, scumreading, confirmed roles, etc.

9v3 day 2...is ridiculous? It's not even going to stay that way throughout the entire game. Also, I do play the game, and have not played Forum mafia in a long time (and am terrible at it), thank you very much. In any case, you're going to have to cite sources other than "ermergahd he plays FM and not ToS so all his points are null and void"

Voting patterns and scumreading can be avoided by just playing smart. Confirmed roles are a problem, but not one that is intended to be an eternal, unchanging thing. The question is whether we want a smaller town roster to be a way scum regains their ground.

If Coven get Poisoner, Medusa, and Potion Master then Coven essentially steamrolls.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby PremedScroll » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:37 am

I do like how the Coven Faction are the new bad for the new ranked playlist, but I do wish there was a ranked game mode which is basically like the vanilla one, but it includes the new roles; this way Ambusher, Hypnotist, and the new neutral roles will have a place in ranked.

Just throwing this out there, maybe have ranked shuffle between the two? Then we'll sometimes have a Town Vs. Maf ranked match, and other times a Town Vs. Coven ranked match.

PyromonkeyGG wrote:Various Bug Fixes

We have fixed many bugs and typos with this patch. If you encounter a bug, or a typo, please make sure to let us know!


I'm still experiencing an achievement bug where Iconic hasn't unlocked for me yet. And I've won WAY more than 250 games.
This probably isn't the place to mention that though.
90% of Witch deaths are caused by Mafia!
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby mdb1023 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:53 am

glad to see you guys are making prompt changes! I'll give my impressions once ive played it a bit more
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby unablezombiekiller3 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:14 pm

I bet we are going to love the patch 2.0.2
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Re: Patch 2.0.2

Postby ZacsMusic » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:23 am

What happened with the regular Ranked Practice Role List??? When it used to be - Jailor, 2 TI, 2 TS, TP, TK, RT, Godfather, Mafioso, RM, NK, NE, NB and Any, just like the Ranked Role List? Because now the Role List is different to Ranked? So how exactly is it still 'Ranked Practice'? I want to play the same role list that is in Ranked but sometimes I don't feel like waiting 3 minutes for a game, why not just go back to the way it used to be??? What was the point of the change in the first place?
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