FM Capo, Hustler, Firebrand, Citizen, BG Nerf, GF Buff

[BS4125]

First and foremost, these are not my roles, these are roles created by the talented people over at Forum Mafia. I am not involved with this in any shape or form but I am carrying it over to Role Ideas to see how people judge them and to attempt to add them into TG

Official site for the rolecards are located here: http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 17&t=44746

Caporegime
Spoiler: Alignment -
Mafia Head

Abilities -
You may target a member in your team at night, retraining them into another Mafia role of your choosing

Attributes -
The player who is being retrained is roleblocked even through immunity if the retraining succeeds
If you retrain yourself the roleblock is ignored
If your ability succeeds then you must wait an additional night until you may retrain again
You may not promote players into unique roles, even if they are already an unique role

Goal -
Kill anyone who will not submit to the Mafia

Investigation Results -
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia
Investigator: Likely the Framer result
Consigliere: Your target owns a wide assortment of hardbacks. They must be the Caporegime

Hustler
Spoiler: Alignment -
Mafia Tactical

Abilities -
Each night visit a player, repeating all actions that happened to them last night again

Attributes -
If you repeat an investigative action, instead you will get the results

Goal -
Kill anyone who will not submit to the Mafia

Investigation Results -
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia
Consigliere: Your target has an uncanny skill in improvisation. They must be the Hustler

Firebrand
Spoiler: Alignment -
Town Killing

Abilities -
Each night douse a player in gasoline
Ignite all of your doused targets, however you may only ignite once

Attributes -
Your method of killing ignores night immunity and appears identical to the Arsonist's methods
The Arsonist cannot ignite your targets, nor can you ignite theirs

Goal -
Lynch every criminal and evildoer

Investigation Results -
Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious
Investigator: N/A
Consigliere: Your target keeps spare matches in their pockets. They must be the Firebrand

Citizen
Spoiler: Alignment -
Town Citizen

Abilities -
You don't have any special ability and just try to live your life in peace

Attributes -
A Citizen can only role once if there are multiple Random Towns

Goal -
Lynch every criminal and evildoer

Investigation Results -
Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious
Investigator: Result with Godfather
Consigliere: Your target is naïve to all the violence. They must be the Citizen

Bodyguard Nerf
Spoiler: Abilities -
If you successfully protect someone, you can't be saved from death

Godfather Buff
Spoiler: Alignment -
Mafia Head

Attributes -
You will receive all night messages from your fellow Mafiosi on what happened that night
You will also receive silent messages which your fellow Mafiosi aren't given

[BlazinIce]

The BG change is a nerf
Also, does firebrand frame targets?

[BS4125]

The BG change is a nerf
Also, does firebrand frame targets?

I typed it wrong
Yes, the douses perform the same as the Arsonist

[Damafaud]

Citizen won't work here simply because people will leave as soon as they get them.

Rolewise, it's fine. Funwise for this game, unacceptable.

[AegonSnow]

/support Capo, Citizen, BG, GF

not sure about Firebrand or Hustler though.

If there's Citizen, why not a Mafia version as well?


I like Citizen. Maybe have it be kinda like the Town Capo. Can remember a dead townie's role.
(a automatically aligned town amne)

[BS4125]

Citizen won't work here simply because people will leave as soon as they get them.

Rolewise, it's fine. Funwise for this game, unacceptable.

They perform fine in FM, and in TG they will perform the same. ToS is a problem though :/

[AegonSnow]

The Firebrand esp.

I just don't see any real reason we need a Town Arsonist.

[BS4125]

The Firebrand esp.

I just don't see any real reason we need a Town Arsonist.

It can be a useful Town Killing with the flexibility of killing few scum quickly or more scum slowly

[dirkpeta]

Personally I don't agree with the BG nerf. Getting BG healed is so difficult as it is, I think it's not OP to have it happen as unlikely as it does.

I mean, the last time I got to witness a BG and a Doc working together in a Ranked game was like months ago.

As for the rest, I support all of them, except the Hustler and the Citizen, the last one for the reasons stated before; people will leave when they get it.

I personally like the idea of a role doing nothing but relying on deduction to help the town, and it's also an easy Mafia claim.

But I'm afraid they could also easily turn into a Town survivor, being lynched just because the role was claimed.

[alex1234321]

Personally I don't agree with the BG nerf. Getting BG healed is so difficult as it is, I think it's not OP to have it happen as unlikely as it does.

Just because something is unlikely does not mean that it is not a problem. If there was a role that could kill everyone else night 1 and automatically win but had a 1/1000 chance of spawning, would that be fair? It is very rare, but when it does occur, it would be a problem.

[HereThereEverywhere]

If there's Citizen, why not a Mafia version as well?

Because right now Mafia is in a state where any type of Citizen-role would be a big nerf? In Ranked, you have 3-4 Mafia. Allowing the RM to roll as a Goon(as I believe Mafia Citizens are referred to in FM, right?) would severely weaken that Mafia's chances of winning, as opposed to having it roll as Consig.

[dirkpeta]

Personally I don't agree with the BG nerf. Getting BG healed is so difficult as it is, I think it's not OP to have it happen as unlikely as it does.

Just because something is unlikely does not mean that it is not a problem. If there was a role that could kill everyone else night 1 and automatically win but had a 1/1000 chance of spawning, would that be fair? It is very rare, but when it does occur, it would be a problem.

Fair point, but I believe it's not that much of an extreme case. In any way, like I said I don't agree personally with it, but I won't oppose aggressively to the idea.

I guess I'm kind of biased, since I always enjoy town roles more. But let's be honest, isn't it incredibly satisfying when it actually happens?

[Tonbert]

I don't think new roles should be replicating existing roles anymore. That's not interesting. Ppl will rage quit or random vote as citizens if all they can do is vote and wear a vest. This is proven to be true in mod games before this site existed.

cap is too OP. Hustler sounds suicical.

[BS4125]

I don't think new roles should be replicating existing roles anymore. That's not interesting. Ppl will rage quit or random vote as citizens if all they can do is vote and wear a vest. This is proven to be true in mod games before this site existed.

cap is too OP. Hustler sounds suicical.

I don't really care about Citizens but they do balance the game a lot. Caporegime is not OP as it is Mafia Head which is Town Power for Mafia and idk what you mean by Hustler is suicidal

[EmeraldDS]

Citizen is awful. Town shouldn't be nerfed by adding useless Town roles; it should be nerfed by changing the Ranked playlist and adding buffs to anti-Town roles. It's just a Townie Surv.

[Mystoc]

i dont see how hustler would ever be useful

citizen is just a bad role a town role that does nothing isnt fun to play


the rest of these roles a interesting

firebrand needs a limit on amount of people it can douse possibly 3 max who are alive


firebrand is very very strong but i like the concept

[HereThereEverywhere]

I think Firebrand is too strong for Town, it can kill more than Vigi and Jailor in it's lifetime, has no drawbacks, and can pierce immunities, which Town doesn't need to do since they can lynch.

I don't see Hustler as useful personally.

BG/GF changes I support, definitely. Maybe even letting GF know everything that happened to their team, including silent checks and such.

[BS4125]

I think Firebrand is too strong for Town, it can kill more than Vigi and Jailor in it's lifetime, has no drawbacks, and can pierce immunities, which Town doesn't need to do since they can lynch.

I don't see Hustler as useful personally.

BG/GF changes I support, definitely. Maybe even letting GF know everything that happened to their team, including silent checks and such.

I haven't played as Firebrand or Hustler so I'm unsure about them but they are looking to be working fine. And also GF gets all notifications from Mafiosi so all feedback sent to a Mafia member is sent to the Godfather

And Mystoc, although it's "boring" Citizen is necessary for balance purposes. If you play FM though you'll find that it's not boring actually though, actually it's more fun to talk than perform and action

[HereThereEverywhere]

How similar is FM to ToS though? Saying Firebrand and Hustler are good there doesn't really help you if we don't know the differences, I doubt it's exactly the same.

And I know how your GF change works, I mean all feedback sent to the Mafia member, and all feedback that's not sent to the member. Something like getting healed without being attacked or such.

[BS4125]

How similar is FM to ToS though? Saying Firebrand and Hustler are good there doesn't really help you if we don't know the differences, I doubt it's exactly the same.

And I know how your GF change works, I mean all feedback sent to the Mafia member, and all feedback that's not sent to the member. Something like getting healed without being attacked or such.

FM is similar enough for roles from FM to work in a ToS environment and vice versa, the only difference is that discussion is embraced more which ToS lacks from it being sped up. Anyway, when it is in TG then we'll see if Firebrand and Hustler need to be edited at all

Yeh ok, I'll add that

[Mystoc]

I think Firebrand is too strong for Town, it can kill more than Vigi and Jailor in it's lifetime, has no drawbacks, and can pierce immunities, which Town doesn't need to do since they can lynch.

I don't see Hustler as useful personally.

BG/GF changes I support, definitely. Maybe even letting GF know everything that happened to their team, including silent checks and such.

I too think in its current state firebrand is a little strong but i like the concept a lot

it has a lot weaknesses vig doesn't though

to even be equal to vig in terms of killing power it need to douses 3 people then ignite that takes 4 nights
if it dies in any of those 3- nights it kills 0 people vig on the other hand can kill every night

if this role douses then kills that takes two nights and only one kill then can never kill again

also the fact transporter an witch can make them douse town and there no way to take it back you have to sacrifice town members to kill evils ,
(or it coulda just been poor decision where you doused a player you know is good now)

i think this OPenness of this role is late game it can just douse the last people left alive and just ignite at worst you get a draw(if you die that night also) at best you are the only one alive and win very easily for town

i suggest only 3 people alive at a time should be allowed to be doused so max kills it can ever get are 3 like vig


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this a lot slower then vig and to even get 3 kills it need 4 nights if it dies at all before that it gets 0 kills

NE and transporter can make it do things it can't ever take back

basicly a lot slower then vig and decisions are final ,

but the HUGE plus is it breaks powerful defense

[HereThereEverywhere]

With only three kills, it's just a worse Vigi. Town doesn't need to kill night immune roles, the entire point of being night immune is so they can't be killed at night. Jailor only does it because anyone who survives the execution is obviously evil, Jailor is one of the hardest roles to fake so the NK would be lynched anyway. WW and Arso do it because they are the NK, and need more power to make up for their slower KPNs.

[DumbStorm]

We already have a citizen role, Spy.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Spy can:
-Confirm Escorts and Investigators
-The above means Consort cannot claim Escort, and Consig cannot claim Invest without risk
-Spy can call out NK roles, which means the NK is getting accused due to something out of their control-the Mafia attacking them
-Simply by writing down who Mafia visits, Spy is confirming non-Maf the majority of the time(Witch and Trans, those are the only two roles that mess with it) which means after some time Spy can easily list off Mafia if they survive
We don't have a Citizen role. People keep forgetting Spy isn't useless at all. Good? No. Useless? No.

[marlony1]

We already have a citizen role, Spy.

Everytime I hear someone say this I laugh and say...
............
............
Spoiler: Git Gud